South Tahoe attempting to fix parking nightmares
By Kathryn Reed
Parking in South Lake Tahoe is atrocious. No one disagreed. And all loosely agreed solving the problems will take creative thinking, and recognizing the various sections of town are not all the same when it comes to use and traffic patterns.
About 30 people, mostly property and business owners, gathered at Riva Grill for about two hours Thursday afternoon to talk about how better to serve their driving customers – which is the bulk of people.
Despite years of planners saying the future would see people using their cars less, that theory has never been realized.
“People are going to drive their cars to get where they want to go. That is not going to change,” John Cefalu said.
- John Cefalu
Cefalu has lived here for decades and has property in multiple locations along Highway 50.
One of his concerns is where people are going to park once Lakeview Commons is finished. He gave a bit of history how there was a time when people could park on the highway. Caltrans finally stopped that practice, which is how Harrison Avenue was created as a frontage road.
Property owners in the area have not been able to agree on a plan that the city wants to develop to alleviate congestion and making parking less nightmarish. Cefalu said an idea to create one-way streets had traction with owners, which could help with parking.
A meeting the evening of Oct. 21 was for the public to express what they would like to see. Only one member of the public showed up. (The National League Championship Series with the San Francisco Giants was at the same time.)
The areas of focus covered in the grant are Ski Run Boulevard and Harrison Avenue. But the consultants doing the work are also looking at the Stateline area.
A $30,000 grant from the state’s Community Development Block Grant program is paying for a team from Kimley-Horn and Associates, which has offices throughout the country including Reno, to create a plan to improve the situation.
The underlying focus is economic development. Without parking that works, people may not frequent a business. With the lousy reputation the Heavenly Village debt-ridden city-owned garage has year-round and the paid Ski Run Marina lot has during the summer, locals in particular stay away from those areas.
Those gathered want to work on changing public perception.
- Business and property owners on Oct. 21 discuss parking in South Tahoe. Photos/Kathryn Reed
Janis Rhodes and Brett Wood of the consulting firm are tasked with gathering the information and coming up with solutions by early summer. How to pay for whatever changes might be proposed will be an issue tackled when the ideas come to light.
“They must deliver solutions to the parking problem that the city can deliver,” Nancy Kerry, the city’s housing-redevelopment manager, told Lake Tahoe News before the meeting. “We know parking is an issue.”
Metered street parking, parking garages, reconfiguring streets, changing public perception about paid parking, paying attention to public transit-walkers-cyclists, and approving future projects with adequate parking were all broached in the daytime meeting.
Most in the audience agreed more parking and paid parking are likely to be more prevalent in South Tahoe in the near future. And they agreed it would be the locals, who are used to free parking, who will probably be the hardest to convince this is what’s needed.
The consultants started work in July by speaking with nearly 300 people to gather their thoughts on parking in the city. They also have read the 10 or so parking studies the city has commissioned over the years.
In the in-person survey, which mostly tourists answered, about 70 percent said they would be willing to pay for parking.
Another survey is being conducted online through at least the end of the year.
This is another opportunity for locals and tourists to weigh-in on parking in town and help direct change.
“During summer we spend more time turning people away than parking them,” Riva Grill manager Scott Craig told the group.
He and others wouldn’t mind a multi-story parking garage to be built to accommodate people.
When the Ski Run Marina project was approved parking was inadequate. It’s worse now that businesses occupy the commercial area and Tahoe Queen has multiple cruises nearly daily, but always in the summer.
“At least 150 people, if not more, work in this area. That’s the same number of parking spots,” said Mansoor Alyeshmerni, owner of Ski Run Marina.
When the city and Tahoe Regional Planning Agency approved the marina development the powers that be touted an integrated bus system for the South Shore, but that reality is teetering in and out of bankruptcy court; and despite all the planning for bike trails, asphalt is the missing component to make that real.
Still, Lisa O’Daly with the California Tahoe Conservancy asked if business owners have noticed more people walking or cycling on trails that her agency has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on – mostly in planning.
Brian Des Rochers, president of the Ski Run BID, said he does see people using the sidewalks on the boulevard.
Wood, the consultant, said in the online surveys that have been completed a number of people have commented on how this is not a walking town.
Cefalu brought up how his Fox gas station plows its sidewalks, but he can’t get neighboring businesses to do the same.
This all tied into a discussion about the tourists’ experience when they are in town – the ability to walk, contend with traffic and park.
Last year the Heavenly Village parking garage lost $160,000, was virtually empty, and deprived local business of customers. If elected to City Council, I will propose we issue annual passes to locals for $100 that entitles them to free parking. If we sell just 1,600 passes, we’ll be able to operate the garage without a loss, which would be a first. AND we could help struggling businesses with an influx of local customers.
Another unnecessary government grant being used to pay for another costly, unnecessary consultant to soak up scarce taxpayer dollars for another senseless study, all caused simply by poor planning by the same bureaucrats in the first place.
Let’s see. Ten previous parking studies to solve our parking problems. Now we are on number eleven. I am sure this one will be the lucky number. I believe I said that about number seven also.
Talk about money down a rat hole and of course spent with out of town businesses.
Steve, check your math buddy. You are measuring loss only and not cosidering any revenue generated at all.
Consider the City’s CIP project for the Mikasa/Millers property at the “Y”. Create a four story building in the space of the existing building with commercial, office, and work force housing, while cutting the existing parking in half. This while seeking to encourage visitors to the beaches and Camp Richardson to leave their car parked there and ride the bus to their destination. In other words cut the parking ability in half, put increased demands on the existing space, and expect the parking capacities of adjoining businesses and properties to pick up the slack. ADA requirements remove a large percentage of viable parking spots to create one handicapped space, further impacting the lack of spots. I am in favor of handicapped spaces and include hem only to show their impact on the situation. When snow storage is added into the equation then we reach critical mass. It is hard to keep sidewalks clear when the City plows use them for snow storage, adding to the problem when people have to park a greater distance away, walking in the street to reach their destination.
Add parking meters across from Lakeview and give out permits to locals so they don’t pay. Problem solved.
I am optimistic about a successful Commons project. For now we have an ugly fence and a court case. I doubt we’ll have to worry about a parking problem there for many years.
Honestly, I’ve lived here for nine years and rarely have a problem parking wherever I want to go. The difficult time is in the Heavenly garage during ski season during the day. Although we have to drive around a bit, we usually do find a place there then.
Parking is an issue in town for sure. One thing I’d to see that will improve the situation in the summer and fall, it some bike racks. It’s difficult to want people to drive less without offering a solution and the infrastructure that goes along with it.
I personally ride to work some days and when I do, I have to lock my bike on some railing outside Starbucks…not is not inviting for a bike commuter.
There is grant money available for these types of alternative transporation projects. Who would I talk with about installing bike racks around the city?
Steve Kubby, if your elected would support bike racks around town? We could even have some pumps for the road riders and cater to this “green movement” around the Lake
Where to start(?) aside from a once-again ‘aborted’ project – let’s start with Harrison Avenue.
A number of years ago Harrison Avenue was to be planned as a one-way “pathway” to eliminate car traffic, and allow the addition of a prominent bicycle-thruway -that never got done, presumably due to the “driving customers”. They did manage to get a parking lot across the street from the other one – which may only partially answer the parking question with regards to the Lakeview Commons area.
I say that because that project was designed absent the very answers now being sought, ironic now because the traffic flow issues could probably raise the “green-built” rating the designers were hoping for.
I am gratified to hear mention of the earlier “touting” of an integrated system (which should have been more multi-modal to encourage other forms as well), but there seems to be a reluctance on the part of “powers-that-be” to pursue viable answers, preferring if you will to only engage consultants that only look at what they’re paid to look at (after all,you only get what you pay for) versus what should be looked at – the achievement of an integrated system concept that can be realized with each step taken.
I also have a decades-long relationship here, and at least one of them was devoted to the idea that the bicycling world was demographically(psychographically as well) much higher than the skiing world, with a much longer “season” than winter. Deaf ears.
As the world (not to mention the new Prosperity Plan) moves in economically sustainable development directions, the changes necessary will not be accomplished with projects that (1) aren’t vetted properly from the outset, including adequate RFP’s; (2)aren’t designed properly (different design teams for different projects RFP’ed by different groups, usually public bureaucracies; and aren’t built to high enough standards (which saves O & M over the long haul anyway)
“modus operandi’s” clearly unsustainable if there is ever to be substantial progress.
As someone who did considerable planning and logistics for (Bill) Harrah: the Hydroplane races at Zephyr Cove, the legendary ‘Attendant’ parking, their ‘off-season’ bus program all over Northern California, I feel somewhat qualified, if perplexed, as to why the continual use (CYA ?) of consulting firms that don’t have a clue about the traffic flow here, which is really not that difficult to understand.
For just two examples, in order of importance: the multi-modal transit system will be key to any future development here but must include the entire basin to bring us anywhere near future viability, as a shift away from aways thinking of “driving” customers as the only kind, and (2) specific issues, like those of Mr. Alyeshmemi and Mr. Craig are dealt with programmatically.
For instance, Mr. Craig can better calibrate his dinner reservations to his parking needs for appropriate turnover of the few spots available, and Mr. Alyeshmemi can suggest that the 150 spots not be used by any of the employees via some sort of subsidy.
This then emphasizes the needs of ‘sales-per-per-square-foot’ versus overlong parkers. Everyone knows that most customers don’t ‘cotton’ to the idea of even crossing Highway 50 to enter Ski Run Marina.
Next, for a 30,000 dollar contract, Mr. Wood may be asking the wrong questions in getting answers to this not being a walking town, especially if he continues to gear himself to only those who are concerned with “driving” customers, as they may be signing the check.
Lastly, there are parking mechanisms (i.e., the same are used in Truckee & Aspen, CO) that may be conmsidered, but I would bet on those which print out coupons to be used at businesses whenever they are in town.
The overall emphasis, however, should be on multi-modal: walking, cycling, & transit. As they say in Montreal:
“It’s not just sport; it’s transport” . . .
Thanks,
Thank You,
I am A local here and there is a serious problem with the parking here!!! If the city issued a pass that allowed you to park without risk of violations because you stayed five minutes past what it says you can, but that is for tourists NOT LOCALS!!!
“People are going to drive their cars to get where they want to go. That is not going to change,” John Cefalu said.
No it won’t—at least not as long as the car-centric mindset that has dominated America for far too long persists. I don’t often agree with Mr. Cefalu, but he’s right in the sense that that kind of thinking has gotten us into this mess and the situation won’t change until viable alternatives to the status quo are available. Both Sue and Gary nailed that with their comments about an integrated, multi-modal system. Only when we use complete streets kind of planning where ALL modes of transit (bus, bike, walking, water bourn..even skating) are accommodated can we offer both residents and visitors safe, convenient options to using our cars all the time. Once those options are in place, we can offer incentives, especially to visitors, to leave their cars parked. For example: Large lodging facilities that have garages can offer free parking IF the car stays put but charge for multiple in-n-out trips (with exceptions for handicapped persons). Also, offer people coupons for reduced admission to events, or a free beverage, snack or gas for the trip home if they use alternative transit. Paid parking at the over-used sites could further incentivize use of alternatives. But until there are real alternatives and a system of incentives and dis-incentives relating to auto use, nothing will change. The key is to make the alternative more interesting, fun, economical and/or convenient than mindlessly hopping in the car.
Sue, check with the lake Tahoe Bike Coalition (www.tahoebike.org) for an update on the City’s bike rack program.
How do you get any intermodal system (which I agree would be great) to work without height and density which not many in this community favor? If we can’t deal with this issue we basically have a system today that I believe we will end up with tomorrow and I believe Mr. Cefalu will be correct.
You’re right Carl…..people will just have to educate themselves on how public transit will only work when we redevelope our town in a way that clusters and mixes business and housing instead of spreading out along the whole strip. It’s also much more attractive and conducive to non-motorized transportation as well. Do you see mixed-use and transect zoning as the answer?
Yes
Mr. Kubby: I worked at Heavenly Village a lot last winter and saw the garage almost full quite often. If you sell 1600 $100 passes, where will they all park? I would assume most of those with passes would be local skiers and then where would our guests park? If we lost $160,000, how much in revenue was there? Your figure didn’t count in those that normally park in the garage (ie, shoppers, movie goers, skiers). If there was $300,000 in revenue, and we still lost $160,000, that would be 4600 $100 passes that would need to be sold to break even..and where would they all park?
Most of the candidates for council are saying approx. 50% of the city’s budget goes toward fire and police. I don’t know where the other 50% goes but I’d feel comfortable electing Alice Jones to tell me where it does. She is an accountant for the Tahoe Keys and knows how to keep track of money. And she’ll also tell you where your money, our money has been going, and more importantly where it can go to keep our sidewalks clear of snow, to keep our town out of frivolous lawsuits and to get us moving forward instead of wherever we are. I believe it when she says she wants to get our community back to the basics. I’m for building this town into the best small town out there but until we know exactly where we stand I’m voting for Alice Jones. One bit of important advice I’ve received in the past. When in doubt consult the experts. This young lady knows numbers. And it sounds like she has a good plan how to reign in those numbers and most importantly show how those numbers can be used to create a better environment for our full time residents. Alice Jones. Vote for her in November. You won’t regret it – right Alice?
Too much money not enough fire water.
It’s so easy to fix problems with the public’s money.
Promises not one candidate can keep,wise up,America pretty broke.
The reality for Disneyland monorails,floating staircases to the local business is still billions of dollars beyond anything you can pipe dream up. lets start easy,good bus service ,dependable service.
Reality:There is no money to fix private Enterprise.
The bottom line is the Heavenly Village should pay for the whole parking deal.
They pay the tax and it goes for paying the damn thing off.
They might find out, they could make a buck, if locals park free,discounts on items with local id.
Seems too easy huh?
If you can’t get locals involved in local sells,local business your wallet pretty much brakes any logic to be in business here in Tahoe,special the south shore.
“Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” That is the psychological dilemma faced when you insist that you need to rely on “driving” customers, especially when you haven’t any planned strategy other than relying on “planners” who outsource possible answers from other places irrelevant to South Lake Tahoe’s needs.
Good dialogue, though – by the way, how was a meeting even planned (1 public member showed up) with candidate forums, baseball playoffs, etc., etc. all happening at the same time, virtually assuring poor turnout (?) . . .
Paying for parking outside of a large city just doesn’t seem right to me, and also would make me feel nickel and dimed as a tourist.
Why don’t you welcome people to park for free, thus making it easy for them to get at the shopping, restaurants, marinas, etc…
How about starting with allowing parking across from the little league field where all the NO PARKING signs are posted!
Than lets think about allowing a large 4 story structure in the rec center parking lot with community meeting rooms on the top floor with a partial lake view for non profit community groups, small weddings etc. Do a rock climbing wall on two sides of it and some sort of recreation court on the roof.
Kae, I have to say, why do you resort to taking photos of the back of peoples head?…No one is going to want to attend important meetings if you continue to take photos of the backs of people.
Is it just me, or does everyone else get a feeling the city is going to screw over the locals more regardless of any survey or public outcry? Anyone else feel like banging their head on a desk?
I really do think the city administrators have to get it in their heads, this is America, and in America we are a Free Enterprise Economy (Capitalists). Consultants can only guess what the market will bear. Surveys are only taken by people who have the time to even think to take them, not by those who are struggling to get by.
I say let Kubby try and overrule the TRPA by the time the courts finally decide if its legal or not all the new improvements and parking would probably be grandfathered in. HA!
How about another nutjob idea, Casinos in California PAY for a bus service to their property. How about a Bay Area / Sacramento / Tahoe “party bus”? Has that ever been tried?
Let the market decide if people are willing to pay $100 for a premium parking space on the fourth of July. Maybe the market will say zero or $20 I don’t know. Consultants will never know for sure. But the market will find out real quick if a party bus idea would work.
One of the things I love about Crawford, he’s just about always against everything. PERFECT! Less is more! Let the private sector rein and let them build jobs, don’t hinder them by screwing up the parking situation!
Louis…we used to have Greyhound buses to Stateline and we still have some charter buses go there. Casinos used to have a lot of bus traffic, but with the California casinos coming and cheaper and quicker for people to take a bus there, thats what they are doing. It is much easier for a casino sitting by itself to be guaranteed the bus rider will stay there and gamble…when a bus rider has choices, they don’t all stay put and a single casino can’t see the results of the play. Casino A would pay the riders to come in and play, and pay the charter company to bring them, but casino B would get most the play. (of course, any play is better than none, but it is hard on the bottom line to justify the expense).
I suggested party buses to Tahoe several times while working in the industry. The party train to Reno used to be a hit so why couldn’t the bus be fun too? As a town we are “reinventing” ourselves, turning to new avenues of attracting the guest, casinos have to do the same too and not dwell on the cost (some profit is better than none, right?)
Please bear in mind that $16 of parking a day over a 2 week holiday, for overseas tourists, can equate to $224 to $448 or higher in the case of New Zealanders. Those costs are factored into their decision on skiing at Squaw Valley where parking is free.
Hello:
This response is to both Louis and to 30-year-local as to whether buses were ever tried and whether or not they worked, as I was involved with both Harrah’s & Harvey’s efforts. Harrah’s had an ongoing program with Greyhound all over Northern California (south to, say, Gilroy), while Harvey’s concentrated on the San Francisco, Oakland &
Sacramento corridor. albeit a little different timespan.
Harvey’s arrangements were with Continental Trailways. whose more comfortable buses also had “galleys” to offer passengers sandwiches and a beverage, versus Greyhound’s planned stop at Fresh Pond just over Echo Summit.
Although there was subsequent offerings by others after these two. the real issue about transportation remains the single car.
Absent the facilitation of well-planned alternatives, Tahoe will be stuck feeding the single-car imperative.
What the powers-that-be don’t seem to realize is that there is a huge number of ‘commuters’ who would welcome a well-planned, integrated multimodal transit offering in a place like Tahoe, as they appreciate offerings from those who care enough to take care of themselves and all others.
In fact, they are learning to expect it.
As to casinos, they now spend more time “hedging their bets” with managing partnerships in various tribal dealings than with bringing folks to town. That way, they don’t have to care about neutralizing the single-car dilemma of Tahoe – that is now more of the ‘modus operandi’: export jobs and customers by their not having to come all the way up here. . .
That is obviously the “dead end street” we are experiencing in not planning our own transit destiny. . .
Thanks. . .
Reality is ,we are far from any where!
Yes it’s beautiful,yes we got the lake ,yes we have skiing,yes we got bike trails,”yes we got local businesses gouging the hell out guest”.
How long did you think it took another businessmen to figure this out ,they built it closer to the main population centers and they will come ,special when gas was hitting 4 plus bucks a gallon.
The rest is History…
I don’t think reinventing is the word we are looking for,it’s called revamping the image of what we need to do to improve our relations with the paying public.
What happened to the two for one lobster dinners, the 10 buck buy in for a Hawaii paid trip or the luxury cruise trip for two,the happy hour that last all damn day,night?
The free shuttles around town for guest.
I can’t tell you, how many out town guest “hate” the signs and city owned parking garage,they want know when the city popping up the parking meters?
We lost the mountain setting imagine look like SF Airport!
If people keep letting these nerds run the city as the past 15 years ,look for more burned out business,no people, no jobs, no money.
The turn outs for the candidates for this election are damn right “Embarrassing” a Monkey could win these seats.
Until there is free parking we will be talking about this situation forever.
I do not have a parking problem i can find all the parking i need in Carson city and that is where i will shop until the city planners get there head out of there rear.We do not have any one in planning who could run a hot dog stand and make a go of it.