Opinion: LTVA needs to change how it does business
Open letter to the LTVA,
Even though we have verbally contacted the Lake Tahoe Visitors Authority before on this matter, we are getting quite disturbed about public dollars going to private companies and costing local businesses additional expenses in promoting their business. Years ago, LTVA made a huge blunder by expending hundreds of thousands of dollars in Internet advertising to promote the privately run ad agency website called virtualtahoe.com. This website was subsequently sold by said agency at a substantial profit to a private investor who has been milking the LTVA name and reputation for years. This company has been charging local lodging providers to appear on that website by stealing traffic from the Lake Tahoe Visitors Authority.
If you Google LTVA or Lake Tahoe Visitors Authority, you will find sometimes in first position, the virtualtahoe.com link with verbiage indicating Lake Tahoe Visitors Authority LTVA information exploiting what should be a copyrighted trademark. Any CEO or board of directors worth their salt would have had this title infringement removed faster than a New York minute, but after all, LTVA is just another mini-government agency taking tax dollars collected by local lodging providers and delegating their promotional duties to high-priced and ineffective ad agencies.
Jim Morris, president Lake Tahoe Accommodations
Tom Davis is the city representative on the Board of the LTVA. Maybe we could start by getting him to do a Q and A with you and Ms. Reed? Most of us don’t understand how the LTVA really functions. Why is the board a never ending appointment to start with?
Where is LTVA located? Tahoe South? Where the hell is that?
Every time I read or hear: “Tahoe South”, it just comes across as some crazy marketing ploy, trying to rename something, ie start a trend, and it’s not catching on.
If you approach Tahoe by motor vehicle from virtually any direction, huge overhead signs on the freeways and highways reading SOUTH LAKE TAHOE direct you into the appropiate lane(s).
The brand SOUTH LAKE TAHOE is advertised with our collective tax dollars to many, many thousands of motorists daily in HUGE letters. That name is firmly implanted in the memory banks of millions of people by now. What is needed here is not a new name for the same old same old, but a new direction in how we host our guests. This is exactly what the Basin Prosperity Plan concluded. Why spend many thousands of dollars on the Prosperity Plan and then basically ignore it and spend thousands more on re-branding the status quo which we already know isn’t working? Sprucing up a park and remodeling a few buildings isn’t gonna cut it. We either protect our major asset, our environment, by making the commitment to adopt a more geo-touristic approach or we continue to lurch from crisis to crisis, never adapting to new realities. That doesn’t work on any level……
i agree with you on some things, tom, this being one of them…
The LTVA is a joke! A real big joke! Wow, they’ve come up with a different name. Or was that the ad agency they hired? Which should then cause everyone to ask, “Why do we need all that LTVA paid staff if the work is being farmed out?” (Which of course leads to more added expenses.)
Plain & Simple, The City of SLT should handle its own marketing separate from,, and thus no longer be reliant on) the aforementioned organization!
One problem Parker, the city has no money budgeted in their expenses for advertising or marketing. Nor do they have any plans to increase taxes or revenue to pay for any future advertising or marketing.
Parker, dryclean,
WHY SHOULD THE CITY BE ADVERTISING?
Many of our problems started in this town, county, state and country when government started doing things that they shouldn’t do.
Time to come up with a new local marketing plan!
Let’s be Proactive and Keep South Lake Tahoe Alive!
A point I made in previous posts was that the City HAD money budgeted for marketing! There was a 2% TOT increase for the specific purpose of marketing SLT. In a money grab to feed the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy the 2% became general fund monies. (And of course that was part of the City’s ever constant we need more money for the trough campaign.)
But that 2% should be reclaimed, since taking it didn’t solve the budget mess! And let’s have some healthy competition between the two sides of the Stateline to see who can draw more tourists to the area?!
And Joe, I can tell from your posts we agree on many things. But on this, we’re a tourist town. Our product is our area and you have to advertise your product if you want business! I don’t see some private sector effort achieving that as how do you get all businesses who’d benefit to voluntarily contribute?
Can someone tell me something Honest?
Who in this town got one “Good Promotion” to get someone to fill the car up for 100 bucks round trip ,come to the lake to be over charged right down to the boats tail pipes, BEFORE YOU PUT YOUR WADERS ON TO INNER TUBE FISH?
DUCKS ARE DUMB,BUT EVEN THEY HAVE WISED UP TO THE FAKE DECOYS YOU CONTINUE TO PLOY.
Parker,
I agree SLT is a tourist town (though i think it should be much more diversified economically) and as such you need to advertise.
My point is that if you had private sector working in a free market you would have much better results than you have now. You would likely have several collaborative efforts competing for results. Each striving to outdo the other…
Instead – well you get what you got. A committee running a monopoly – never has worked well before and I bet never will.
In fact, in my opinion if you had a competitive environment you would have more people employed in the marketing business locally (economic diversification) working in all aspects of marketing; PR, internet – social media – web sites – even music professionals. All would have higher quality players, competitors. Instead you have cronies who succeed ucking up to the tax money.
It’s the government getting its hands into everything that is messing it up.
Lower the taxes and let the companies hire their own marketing teams…
It won’t work now – SLT is to far gone – it’s toast waiting to burn. There is no saving it. But people need to understand what went wrong.
Parker,
BTW – years ago i did get businesses to contribute to a joint marketing effort – huge success we produced a series of Venture Capital Conferences. Deloitte and Touche, Coopers Liebrand (sp?), PWC (after the merger) Ernst & Young, Intel Capital to name a few oh ya and the snakes too – several international law firms. The lawyers were the bad seed. One in particular. I digress.
Then I watched as the cancer we call government slowly took over – the group I built rotted and died. What is left is just the cancer, well paid cancer paid with your tax dollars.
Actually, that’s not true, they are paid with your kids and grand kids tax dollars.
Don’t totally disagree with what you say Joe. Just will say that if the CA side did do its own marketing, that would start a little competition with the NV side. And there’s no way you’re going to get every business to voluntarily contribute, which would lead to the problem of those benefitting without pitching in.
But if our City doesn’t do it’s own marketing, it should then reverse the 2% TOT increase. This would give the private sector more flexibility to do its own marketing campaign.
Joe, Bravo! Bravo! I’m impressed. Don’t necessarily agree with ALL you said but found it cohesive and productive to the discussion (not that you would think much of my praise, just feel give credit where due). My one bone of contention is the part about just leaving the marketing to the private sector. The way I see it is, the fact that just about all but the clubs (and I wouldn’t consider them big fish in today’s market) in our area are small businesses that don’t have the $ to compete in national and global marketing. Tourism destination marketing has become a very competitive tool using national and global advertising venues that are extremely costly. We are competing in a much more saturated marketplace, whereas 30 years ago and beyond (South Shores hay day) you didn’t have STATES with national advertising campaigns vying for the tourist dollar. There were fewer (compared to now) areas in the US that were really known as destination resort areas (Hawaii, Florida, California, Vegas, Tahoe, National parks) and were world famous for it. My convoluted point is without a group marketing effort I feel we just can’t compete on a national/global scale and don’t think 40 little marketing plans can reach the numbers of people that would grow exponentially with a larger combined effort.
Parker, Big,
It is complex, but that does not mean that the government type mentality needs to run it. Private sector based groups can be formed that oversee the process in total transparency. It wasn’t all that long ago that Chambers of Commerce were run by private sector business. Look at the el dorado county chamber board history, PG and E forever – top level positions too, the county Tax Assessor, the superintendent of schools, the newspapers. These people should be working to win the support of the chamber of commerce not running it.
There is a philosophy today that non-profits are more ‘pure’ than for profit operations and I think that is wrong, it is not true. It’s a reflection of the miss education that has gone on in California and elsewhere for decades.
Small business people I knew by in large are very community focused people. I am not talking about publicly traded corporations – for them often times it’s all about the bottom line. I am talking about the business people that use to be your neighbors, there are a lot less of them now than there were 20 years ago.
The way I see it the non-profit groups that control much of the operations at the lake have bread incompetence and cronyism.
It’s the same in many sectors of our economy today. In many of the cases I’ve seen the people that rise to the top of these groups do so because of their political skills not their effectiveness. In fact it is often Crooked political skills.
i.e. Dealing in underhanded ways with real estate developers.
When you look back on Tahoe for the last 20 years or so – does that not seem to ring true?
We, our country, are in deep dodo today. Are we not? We need to start understanding why.
Big corporate America and big banks don’t hire lobbyists to argue for a level playing fields. They stifle competition and it’s doing a lot of damage to our towns and our country.
At least that’s the way I see it.
Can’t argue your point and completely agree with you on the corporate influence permeating our society.
Great dialog… I too think the LTVA is on the wrong track — and imagine they are a staff of folks never educated in the strategic marketing discipline. Tahoe Blue (stupid); Tahoe South (stupid)! I have been playing in SLT for 50 years – and during some years working for a large biotech company – I organized symposiums (at Granlibakken), ski trips (rooms at SLT with 2nd day skiing at North Shore). When I worked for an airline before that, we had a “sales promotion” dept who worked with an advertising agency (we had product knowledge and they had the launch savvy). I worked for the Aspen Ski Corp many years ago – they kept things lively, kept all employees happy & informed, and everyone who visited Aspen competed to get into the great restaurants and bars! I was a Sun Valley Ski Ambassador who brought folks from the Bay Area to Sun Valley & skied with them all week. Bring some fun & ambassadors to SLT!
I agree that South Lake Tahoe should not be rebranded – but polished with invention & innovation. Perhaps work with the University & College Marketing Program Chairs to collaborate on possible marketing thesis projects. They know how to evaluate market share and focus on results!
But please give up the useless re-brandings and get some professionals educated in marketing onboard to save our community/economy. South Lake Tahoe should not be “wild” (also stupid), it should be fun, healthy, have huge diversity in entertainment & events, have a mountain culture with better restaurants (call the Culinary Academy)with WOW customer service.
South Lake Tahoe is the Diamond in the Rough. Unload the fractured approach & implement what folks want at today’s destination.
Bigger picture as a good perspective. Tourism has become a brutally competitive business. Back in the day which everyone fondly remembers there was a very different competitive environment. There were no competitive gaming areas outside of Nevada and the competitors within California was few and much further behind in capital development. Today you have the following competitive situation.
1. Gaming in every state with four major tribal casinos in the core northern California market. This alone reduced retail gaming business and was a major cause of job losses in this community.
2. Increased competition from non gaming destinations including Napa, Sonoma, Santa Cruz, Monterey etc. That have improved their infrastructure with events, venues museums, recreational activities, new and updated lodging etc.
3. Competition from areas that had little to no tourism yet are closer to the population base like Nevada City, Grass Valley, Sonora etc. every little community has a website, a special event,arts etc.and now competes in the market.
4. Non stop flights hourly from Sacramento, Oakland, San Francisco and San Jose taking people to other destinations. For example, just Southwest alone has approximately 5,000 seats a day coming from those four airports into las Vegas. To say nothing of all the other destinations they fly to.
5. Increased advertising budgets. Most every destination that competes with south shore has a tourism business improvement district (0ver 65 of them in California) that generates millions for advertising. Splitting our advertising resources makes no sense.
Add to this fact that south shore is unable to improve its infrastructure at the same pace as other areas which keeps us falling behind.
As you an see this is a complex issue.
The LTVA has strategic plan which they have been implementing including a new website, social media strategy, event based marketing programs, cooperative marketing to leverage their dollars, a geo tourism program, improved research and analtytics etc. If you have an interest pick up a copy or attend a monthly board meeting or marketing meeting.
Most of us are working our behinds off and can’t make all those meetings where decisions are made without asking the “common folk.” It’s been said before: “America’s all year round playground” was an awesome slogan and the name South Lake Tahoe works just fine. Better ways to spend all that money than “stupid” names and inappropriate slogans.
I’m with Irish on the “Wild” campaign! What a poor idea, what type of clientele do you think you’ll attract with that one? Some partiers will come anyway, but do you want more, and scare away everyone else?
It’s almost as if they have money burning a hole in their pocket over at LTVA, do they have a requirement to spend a minimum of their funding? or they will get decreased or something?
Maybe it’s time for some new blood over there, or some proven outside advertising.
The LTVA has been working on its next, great plan for at least 20 yrs. now! When that plan hasn’t worked, we’ve been told the next great plan will be the one that actually ‘takes off’.
Since there’s absolutely no way the LTVA has the only correct vision to market our diverse (gaming and outdoor activities) community, they should not suck up all the available financial resources!
Monopolies lead to stagnation, not innovation! That’s what free market Capitalism has always illustrated!
It’s a moot argument. The city puts no money in the LTVA. The major funding comes from the gaming industry, douglas county and the california lodging industry. They all choose to put their money in the LTVA because they understand the benefits of working together.
Even if there was money from the city which there never will be, to split your funding have multiple messages, multiple ad campaigns, multiple websites would be was waste of money and duplicated efforts and confuse the consumer. When your competitors are spending as much or more on a unified marketing effort to fragment your efforts is a losing proposition.
If anyone has some good ideas i recommend you attend the meetings and contribute.
Mr. Ribaudo:
I agree with your comments and would add that people should participate during these processes rather than only providing criticisms after the fact. I fully understand that people are extremely busy but if this matter is important to them then they need to contribute what they’d like when ideas and plans are being formulated. Just might be that some unexpected individuals have some good ideas but if they don’t come forward and make them known nothing can come of them.
Carl, the sum of the parts is better than the individual efforts in this case because funding is so limited. So agree. But please tell me how you can possibly defend rebranding the area to Tahoe South. As Irish Wahini says, it is stupid. It really is.
As to new ideas and attending meetings. It seems that the board will never change and thus new thinking will never be taken seriously as they have to defend their constant change of agencies and rebranding. People come for the snow, weather, the mountains, the air and the lake. What the heck does Tahoe South have to do with that?
Carl, you are correct that since the City puts nothing in, they have no say. My point is that the City should, like it used to, be part of a marketing effort. After all, the marketing money the City took just went into its wasteful black hole.
But again the LTVA has had so many different failed campaigns, but now we’re supposed to believe that this one will work? And with taking an area that on maps and signs is known as South Lake Tahoe and renaming it ‘Tahoe South’ you’re worried about confusing messages?
tahoe South will be the new name of our town when the City charter is disbanded
when the police, fire and public works are absorbed by the County
remember we are going to be Like Aspen
I belive that all the business folks should start useing the Slogan
(America’s ALL YEAR PLAYGROUND ) as a grass roots effort to brand our town
all the discussion on this blog will not get the LTVA, or the people in charge, to do anything, other than acheving there own goals
“…have multiple messages, multiple ad campaigns, multiple websites would be was waste of money and duplicated efforts and confuse the consumer.”
EXACTLY!! So why do they do just the above every few years and “confuse the consumer.”?? We have a good slogan. We have a great name (No, Carol, we DON’T “need a new name” and we DO have a “name we can slap on a t-shirt” – SOUTH LAKE TAHOE is just fine.).
While a rose by any name is still a rose, …changing “Patagonia Tooth Fish” to “Chilean Sea Bass” as a branding strategy did bring the fish to the brink of extinction. So they can have impact. And with Pure Tahoe North/Go North, we can now confuse visitors headed to both sides as they look for matching freeway signs…
Yet I venture a name change that will weave the water, culture, past and future with a frequency set to sparkle. Let’s call Lake View Commons/El Dorado Beach the Washoe word for People’s Place: Tanu Leweh!
Imagine if we actually spoke the language of this land? Tanu Leweh! Learn it, share it, whisper it to the water, feel it in your heart and join the circle that connects us all. Daho!
The reason why you change your advertising because you need to refresh your message so it stays relevant and interesting to consumers and their changing needs and perceptions. What may have work ten years ago or five years ago or even last year may not be relevant to an individual today. Look at how consumer products giant Apple has changed their message, they also changed their logo from a rainbow to a single color, they even changed their name from Apple Computers to just Apple.
Every consumer products company changes their advertising to stay relevant Pepsi, Coke, Chevy, Ford, Honda etc., as do destinations. Look at how the state of California has had great success with their ads, they change them all the time, why to stay relevant. The LTVA hasn’t changed its brand for over 8 years. It may not suite everyone’s taste but there was a very detailed process that involved many people (meetings which anyone could attend by the way)where the rationale and strategy were articulated, shaped and agreed to.
It’s a little more nuanced than putting South Lake Tahoe on t shirt and telling everyone you have Americas Playground.
Additionally changing your ads and keeping the message fresh is very different from a single destination putting forward a number of different advertising messages pointing people to different websites which ultimately confuses consumers.
Consumer product companies will every few years change Succesful advertising campaigns. The LTVA changes duds!
And succesful consumer product companies will also use multiple campaigns at the same time knowing that they shouldn’t put all their faith in one message.
Look what happened several years ago when Coke slightly changed its product formula – enormous flop. Then last year when it changed Coke cans from red to white – another flop.
They use different campaigns to reach different segments.
yo Carl if you got out and looked around for more than a moment
tried participating in some of the outdoor recreational activites
you would find out, that is what this place is realy all about
people come here to play, and leave there boring life behind
I’m coming to the conclusion that we should suspend all advertising campaigns and just advertise when we have something different and unique to market.
I know this won’t go down well with many of you but when Heavenly was making snow and we had the best conditions we should have used the ad dollars to market Heavenly, which in turn fills up rooms and resturants and retail doors. Screw a camapaign until we fix up this town. You can only sell snow to eskimos for so long. Our town (not our lake and mountains) is old and tired.
This summer when the valley gets to 100 degrees, lets advertise the heck out of our cool, clean and crisp air and cheap rooms. Consumers no longer book weeks and weeks in advance; especially the drive market.
That ends the discussion about image and branding and we spend our limited dollars when they will make a difference.
Final word to Carl, you make money directly from the LTVA. So would appreciate honest opinion about the LTVA and not the broader science of destination marketing. Its clear that the LTVA does nothing well but the American Century Golf Classic and I’ll even give them credit for a bike race that did not do much for the local economy other than fill up rooms with non-paying race staffers and sponsors but did earn us TV coverage.
Don’t deny that that they have been a client on some projects but that also allows me to see what goes on inside the organization. I also won’t deny that like every organization the have their strengths and weaknesses. However ,most of the comments made here are from a lack of knowledge and or understanding about what they do. Like I said in other posts go to a meeting, see what they do understand their strategies, programs and measurements and if you have ideas contribute. But to just complain on a blog without the benefit of being informed is a disservice.
I’m not one to pay much attention to advertising, but some campaigns manage to develop an icon and it sticks.
Hamms beer did that in the 1950s – 80s with not just one, but three symbols – the Hamm’s Bear, their jingle (From the Land of Sky Blue Waters, comes the beer refreshing) – from the “enchanted Northland”, and the waterfall/lake country backlit signs that showed up in bars across America.
Often tacky and silly, maybe by design, but people remembered these and wanted a cold Hamms on a hot summer day. Even though it wasn’t a standout beer.
Maybe South lake needs a set of iconic symbols. Sure there’s any number of photos and slogans that have been tried, but do any stand out as the ones that represent it above all others?
You can’t just will these into existence. I guess you have to try and see what sticks over time.
My vote is to try a series of really outstanding seasonal photos that emphasize 3 things that are being pushed:
– Outdoor action/adventure
– Family activities
– Night life
Perhaps try to develop a photo series for each season. These could be changed and rotated, but would always consist of the best and most appealing photos in an identical recognizable style, coupled with some catch phrases to be developed:
– Winter – a snowboarder flying above the top of Heavenly on a bluebird day with fresh powder on the trees, with the Lake and Mt. Tallac and the Keys in the distance
– Spring – A group in their early 20s walking past Heavenly Village shopping with the casino highrises in the background
– Summer – A young paddleboarder on glassy Emerald Bay, with a family speedboat and the Tahoe Queen in the background
– Fall – A family bicycling through the Camp Richardson area with some fall colors and activity around Richardson in the background.
Rotate in other ones that include wine tasting, mountain biking, snowshoeing, great dining, rock climbing, all the usual suspects. But have a similar signature look and feel to them that identifies it over time as South Lake.
Hammer home the message repeatedly:
– It’s all-season fun
– Great for families
– Great for adventure sports and young people
– More to do after hours than anywhere else in Tahoe
“America’s All-Year Playground” sums it up nicely, and sounds inviting too.
As opposed to Tahoe south, Cross over to the wild side, Get your vacation on, Blue whatever and so on.
Carl, just because most of us are working our tails off for a lot less money than the LTVA and their clients make doesn’t mean we are “uninformed.” We are WORKING during the times these meetings, which are not well publicized, are held. We can, however, see the recorded city council meetings of the presentation on this “new” campaign and we have eyes to see the garish ads, billboards, and bus sides, as well as ears to hear the awful jingles about “walk on the wild side, Tahoe South” (talk about confusing the market – where is that on any map or road sign?), and the other lame references to our beautiful scenery and outdoor recreation. Nightlife? All I saw promoted was the casinos – what about moonlight snowshoe hikes? Dinner cruises around our unique lake on the Dixie or the Queen? LTVA spends a lot of money – to what good end?
Mr. Ribaudo, just because someone has a different opinion does not mean they are uninformed! I had gone to meetings in the past and input was not welcome. And I have regular contact with the staff.
This mindset of, there’s only one way and if you disagree with it, it’s because you’re uninformed, is why I push for a competitive marketing campaign. Well that and the failure of the previous LTVA campaigns. And one would think that with those previous failures the LTVA would have less of a tin ear on the views of the community?!
No more campaigns, no more branding exercises. Just advertise when we have something to promote that would attract the drive market to come up here.
This would save money and allow financial flexibility when there is something concrete to put out there. i.e. events, a snow advantage, comfortable weather.
Keep the experienced Exec. Dir., keep the outsourced PR firm, hire a few local boutique advertsing firms and get rid of the rest of the staff,the overhead and the out of town agency. Use part-time ers for American Century, etc. The Exec. Director can manage the subcontractors and work from home. Its only a $5-$6 million dollar budget which is peanuts and totally manageable for one person and an assistant to oversee.
Lets be honest, until the appeal of South Shore becomes something other than old and worn down, what the heck are we branding? Come to Tahoe South and see the old motels, hole in the ground, antiquated casinos, cracked roads and run down strip malls.
Its a new reality. Time to downsize and advertise things that will drive revenue. Isn’t this what most of us local business owners have been forced to do? Heck even Heavenly only markets season passes and packages. They long ago stopped trying to brand themselves. Look at Edgewood. It promotes its 2 for 1 dinners and Sunday prime rib specials more than anything else.
What say you Mr. Ribaudo, Parker and others? Shelve the LTVA as it currently exists until we fix south shore up?
Next time LTVA wants some input, before going full-board with a new campaign, put it on here first, we’ll help you work the bugs out ;)
I vote for: “America’s All-Year Playground” The only thing I would add, is there is something for everyone one here, of all ages, and all persuasions.
And the town name is: South Lake Tahoe
Just cause North Lake did it, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, I believe you got sucked into that, they are the ones I imagine are struggling more to be recognized as a destination.
Well, judging by the number of thoughtful responses, this discussion has certainly hit a nerve….and that is a good thing. With so many minds chewing through this, we should be able to come to some consensus on how best to revitalize and market our region (not just SLT). It’s clear that:
1) We need a revitalized product to promote.
2) We need a coordinated marketing effort.
3) Most everyone agrees that we are and should remain being called SOUTH LAKE TAHOE…not a rebranded tahoe south
What’s still missing from this discussion is the recently completed Lake Tahoe Basin Prosperity Plan. If you are not familiar with it, go to the following link. On the site, there is a deeper explaination of the plan. Pay particular attention to the document titled: FINAL REPORT 2011.
I hope this generates further thoughtful commentary.
http://www.tahoeprosperity.org/
Well dryclean, I was done commenting until I was accused of being uninformed. So I will just quickly state that forming a brand is all fine, but it should come second to making special announcements.
This year with the poor snow, as businesses were really struggling, and as all sorts of rumors were flying around, we would’ve been better served if the LTVA got the word out that the ski resorts were open, were staying open, and conditions were fine. Instead the org. was all holed up in its ivory tower, trying to reinvent the wheel.
And this Summer, it would be great if some resources were used to promote our nice, new beach area, Lakeview Commons.
locals have called that ‘the boat ramp’ for decades,funny because it was always more out the water than in it.
Now the same beach is called something different,don’t think anyone around much cares what they call it,Rubber necking tourist ville what more than few neighbors call it that live right there put up with the strange people,trash, noise, speeding cars.
The water will never know the difference.