Loop road opponents dominate SLT council meeting
By Kathryn Reed
If the loop road project were completed, will a section of South Lake Tahoe become a ghost town as drivers avoid a significant commercial segment of town, or will it stimulate the economy?
If Highway 50 and city streets in the Stateline area were left as they are, will this be good or bad for the city financially?
Plenty of people have an array of opinions, but no hard facts have come forward to put substance to their thoughts.
On Tuesday night the South Lake Tahoe City Council got an earful about what people think about the proposal that would eliminate 88 dwellings where 245 people live. Thirteen businesses would be affected in some way. “Affected” has yet to be defined. No residents or businesses in Nevada would be relocated.
All of this would be so traffic on Highway 50 would be rerouted through a neighborhood on the mountain side behind Harrah’s and MontBleu, with the idea it would provide a more walkable, scenic area in the Heavenly Village-casino corridor areas.
Businesses in South Lake Tahoe are making it known how they feel about the loop road. Photo/LTN
The May 29 evening workshop was intended to give the public an opportunity to weigh-in with their thoughts about this project that is being driven by the Tahoe Transportation District – not the city, not Douglas County, and neither state transportation agency.
More than 50 people attended the meeting.
What was not pointed out is TTD can go forward with the project, even if the council never gives its blessing, as long as eminent domain is not required.
Of the 26 people who spoke, five were in favor of the project, 13 against and eight were not definitive in their stance. However, of those eight, more were critical than supportive.
Eleven letters were submitted, though not read into the record despite the writers asking for that to happen. All were against the project.
Bill Cherry, an attorney representing a business owner in the project area, handed the council members a petition with 106 signatures from business people who are against the loop road.
Terry Hackett, who is the controlling partner of the Village Center, said he has yet to formulate an opinion.
“We’ll review the economic impacts,” Hackett told the council.
But no one has commissioned a thorough economic analysis.
The environmental documents that will be prepared for the loop road will include an economic component, but not a substantive one that addresses some real concerns the city would have. This is because the loop road is a transportation project, not an economic stimulus project.
The South Shore Vision Plan, the proposal that would revamp the highway from Ski Run Boulevard to Kahle Drive, does have an economic feasibility component. Carl Ribaudo with SMG Marketing is putting that study together. He is also one of the people who spoke at the special council meeting in favor of the loop road.
However, the impacts to businesses in the loop road area that would not be demolished and/or relocated are not being studied. This was part of Hackett’s point.
If the road were rerouted, people would go behind his shopping center where there is no signage. He added had a loop road been proposed in 1980 when he bought what was then known as the Crescent V Center, he would not have done so.
Pete MacRoberts, who operates the Holiday Inn Express, said there is no way guests can merely use the Carrows driveway.
Randy Vogelgesang, South Tahoe Public Utility District’s board liaison to the city, said, “A lot of time infrastructure is relocated at our expense and that is passed on to ratepayers.”
How other utilities – like gas, electric, telephone and cable – would be affected and the residual impacts on ratepayers has not been brought forward to the public.
The council never intended to take action Tuesday. But most have strong feelings.
“I don’t support using eminent domain again,” Councilman Hal Cole said.
People intimately familiar with eminent domain spoke – like Lou Pierini who went through it with other redevelopment projects.
“Of the 100 businesses displaced, I’m the only one left,” he told the council.
“I think the council needs to make a decision early,” Councilman Bruce Grego said. He wants the council to take a vote in the fall before the process is dragged out any longer and more money is spent.
Tahoe Transportation District has money to get through the design process – of which 10 percent is done. It’s estimated the project could cost $70 million to build – of which about half is projected to be spent on acquisition and relocation of property and people. However, not a penny of that money has been secured.
A relocation plan is expected to be released any day. Comments on it will be taken for 30 days. If the project goes forward, rights of ways and relocation could begin in 2014.
Councilwoman Angela Swanson said, “To me this is a huge land use piece for the city. We need to see if it pencil’s out.” She wants to look at the broad vision of the city instead of viewing the loop road as an isolated project.
Paul Genasci, whose office is not in the project area, said, “This town does not just exist in the casino corridor.” He said complaints from tourists are about blight, not the congestion in the casino corridor. He questions if tourists have been asked what they think since the project appears geared to improving the tourist experience.
Dominic Acolino, general manager for Embassy Suites, said his guests are frustrated with the infrastructure on the South Shore. He mentioned how he suggests they go to Van Sickle Bi-State Park, but warns them to be careful because there are no sidewalks.
What he failed to mention is if the loop road project he supports goes through, a state highway will go in front of the only bi-state park in the country.
Jay Kniep believes the environmental gains touted from the project could be achieved without rerouting the road, just like they were with the Heavenly Village project. He also questions the old studies being used that call for an increase in traffic on the highway when in fact the reality is fewer vehicles are on the road.
The draft environmental documents are expected to be released this fall. The soonest construction could begin is 2016.
Before anyone makes this huge decision to build this loop road, which will have a non-reversible effect on many homes and businesses, think hard about the “hole in the ground”. Many lofty expectations, monumental failure.
The economy continues to collapse. Property tax revenue will continue to dwindle while while we work through years of shadow inventory and someone wants to put their energy into diverting HWY 50. Why?
Re-inventing the wheel? Don’t we already have TWO roads that loop around the highway 50 casino corridor?
this project is another attempt to Shrink our Town
$100.00 says they go thru with it!
Really good point about the affect a highway would have, going by the new Van Sickle Bi-State Park. IMO, it kind of spoils it :(
The existing loop roads were studied about 10 years ago by the TRPA and moving the through traffic to the mountain side was their selection. The dicourse regarding this today sounds more like property owners establishing a negotiating position to get the most money for there businesses and houses than real objection to the plan.
What this project lacks is a REAL economic impact study conducted by IMPARTIAL analysis. There can be little doubt that the town needs upgrading, our product is just not competitive. Aesthetically it seems it would be an improvement, but how will the business-deck be reshuffled, at whose expense? It’s pretty clear this is being done by road guys. What did they expect as a reaction if they can’t answer the basic economic questions. Hard to trust people whose check is in the mail when the business owner is in a daily fight to survive, it’s just two different worlds.
Agreed tahoeadvocate, plenty of posturing going on here-
i mean relly it’s would only benefit the nevada side and the casinos which are on the decline. it does absolutely nothing to benefit the california side where the real focus needs to be. we need to keep attracting a whole new group of people the casinos are in the past. people should be coming to tahoe for tahoe.
Kae, Of the five that spoke in favor one worked for a casino, and 3 of the other 4 were being paid to be there. Bill Cherry, I don’t know if he was being paid, but none of the other people against were being paid to be there. The room was standing room only, and 15 to 25 more outside the room, so more than 50 seems low.
Agree with Buster, it’s only giveaways for California, and gains for Nevada, and doesn’t solve any traffic issues, just creates a big play space for the casinos; which for the cost to build, I don’t feel is going to reap that big of returns.
How about building a nice pedestrian overpass, cleaning up the crumbling curbs, and repaving, this would make it look less rundown.
Here we go again… money being thrown at the casino corridor. Is the City even working with TTD to develop projects for the other side of town?
So what exactly is the city’s role in this? If the TTD can start the project (which they already have) without the city’s blessing isn’t this really about eminant domain? If so, lets call it what it is.
Second question, can the TTD implement eminent domain without the city approving it?
I think most of the info presented at the meeting is out of date and irrelevant as the convention center has never been finished and tourism is down…so the amount of traffic is down. The only people benefiting this whole thing are the consultants…how much do they make a year?
How much has been spent on “studies”?
Maybe they should start with something small first.
Just think how much better traffic would flow through Stateline if they fixed the stoplights. The Stateline stoplight has been broken for decades!!!!
The meeting that I attended a month ago was predominantly people who oppose the project too, and the heated comments dominated the discussion. Seemed unproductive with focus on emotion from attendees and lack of info from TTD. No desire to attend another meeting until TTD has more to offer. Just unproductive.
South Lake Tahoe has great potential to draw people with it’s rustic mountain rustic charm. I wish the remodel of Bill’s Casino had done that instead of looking boxy and commercial. If the casinos want the loop road to make the area pedestrian friendly, they should also make it a beautiful place people want to wander through. Heavenly Village and Embassy have nice/rustic architecture. What becomes of The Hole will be a turning point for the area…good or bad. And, once developed, it will bring more traffic to the area. So, I hope the planning works, whatever happens, because I stay far away from congested traffic areas.
The TTD has no gov. authority, so they would need the city’s blessing to take property. They might try caltrans but I don’t think caltrans would go against the city of SLT policy of not taking private dwellings via eminent domain.
Why not put the money toward BRINGING people to Tahoe?? The road isn’t even necessary at this stage of the game. Ask the casinos how far down their revenues currently are, which they are blaming on the Indian Casinos. Spend the money to fill “the hole”, fix up the neighborhood, and bring in more travelers!
Right on Dee. Corporate Casino greed has killed the golden goose. There are so few winners anymore. Locals and No. Calif. people would still play and party year round if the machines and odds weren’t so tight. Quarterly revenue is all they care about. Building the business through customer service and guests actually winning occasionally, maybe even comps for food/bev/rooms, died with Bill H. and Harvey G. We should lobby for a return to those halcyon days of Tahoe, set a trend in gaming with more winners than any other destination in the country. Advert that to the max with all our other natural beauty and outdoor activities=winner. Screw the new loop, use the money to revitalize what we have.
The message is ,”Get out the way small fries,The big boys got plans”!
Maybe Randy had the foresight to see, buy, tearing down the Colony inn was a better investment than the rest MIGHT of thought?Some people are just born under a good sign.
Take your Dumpy little dreams,store fronts, let the Cash head toward the Big Bucks Edge-wood Party Zone, THEY got the clout in both People,POLITICAL pull in both states to push you aside, GET THEM TO NEVADA TO EMEPTY THEIR POCKETS.All you who live close to this, get ready for some Semi trucks noise, fumes for the rest your days in the new coming Tahoe South.
Write your Congressman,State Rep they ALREADY BEEN IN BED WITH THE BEAST HAVE DEEP POCKETS, LOVE SPENDING SOMEONES ELES MONEY.
“THE FOOLS ON THE HILL DON’T STAND A CHANCE”
I agree with Lou on this – TTD is an adjunct of a regulatory agency (TRPA), which never does its’ own projects. . . therefore they probably don’t have the authority. . .
This seems to boil down to “planning” money, as where did the 10% already planned go ? If this town spent more encouraging transit, rearranging how cars go would be irrelevant.
It would also ease the “redevelopment” of more than that end of town, which needs more of a marketing campaign than “rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic”. . .
As to Hal Cole’s comment about not wanting to use ’eminent domain’ again: it’s now illegal anyway !! Relocating and negotiating a buy-out for themselves might end up to be their best option anyway. . .
The Vision Plan has nothing new in it, except to encourage what didn’t happen over the last 20 years – the Loop Road concept was shifted a bit: heavier on the east side (hence the interchange at the Bottle Shop) and lighter on the Lake side (presumably because the consultant “discovered” that no one knew how to find the Lake.
This, from a business orientation that includes entities with no clocks and a voracious appetite for steering customers their way (only) – Bill Harrah never needed to think that way, so on their part this is a huge rationalization (which Canadians define as “fooling yourself”) bringing all ‘newbies’ with them. . .
Why can’t traffic be routed one way over the existing loop roads? Traffic from California would all go past the Raley’s Center on the existing road. Traffic from Nevada could be routed around Edgewood.
This would bring more traffic by the businesses in question, clear the Stateline corridor and not require homes and businesses to be torn out.
I do not understand why existing routes are not being considered. I do not understand why these decisions always seem to favor Nevada’s businesses (Casinos) and not California businesses that are actually helping to pay for these changes.
My two cents
-Local Yokle
No more spending money on old useless projects as it is now, who even uses the loop road unless your late for work at the clubs. Locals know the shortcut roads and until the Hole is ever completed in whatever form there is NO need to up root businesses and people from their homes.The city doesnt need to put itself deeper in debt to make the Village or the Casino’s happy. 30 yrs ago the town was a busy place and the thought was interesting because traffic could be backed up on some weekends to Al Tahoe Blvd.in Ca. Nothing like stuck in traffic behind 8 gambler special buses but that was than. Lets get some tenants in those closed buildings all thru town this CAN WAIT NOT A PRIORITY..
Mike, AMEN! The fact that there are those that want to proceed on this and that there is even ANY possibility of this happening in this economic atmosphere IS SHEER LUNACY! I understand some people’s viewpoint that you gotta spend it to make it, but that usually means that you have to have it to spend it! We nave no business leveraging the future in this plan Or displacing homes and businesses, especially after “the hole” debacle.
You can see all the comments, presentations and rationale on the website for the City; the video is under the government tab.
The South Tahoe Chamber stands behind the business owners that will lose their livlihood, be forced to leave what they have worked so hard to build, and opposes action that will benefit Nevada. Makes no sense to us. We sincerely hope the Council will stop the proposed destruction of these businesses,keep the tax base intact,employees at work, and families in OUR town.
This town is pathetic and will always be the dump of tahoe. The people who live here are worthless.
Todd don’t let the door hit you on your way out!!!!!!!!!!! Please go!!
Todd,
You are right, pathetic is the state of SLT.
It is best for you to leave, it was the smartest thing I did for my future. Tahoe, indeed California itself has a cancer of crony capitalism and it has eaten away it’s soul.
… Perhaps she’ll censor me on this post too.
If you hate this place so much why are you commenting on a town you say you are no longer a part of?
If you aren’t part of the solution you must be part of the problem.
Go flame someone in your own community.
Local Yokle
I’d like to address some of the negative comments made by some regarding SLT and the good people that make up this community.
This town is pathetic? Hardly! Sure there are some problems between the city council and some govt. agencies, be they state or federal, but what town does’nt have similar difficulties? This is America and everyone has a voice,even if you don’t agree with them.This is Tahoe, one of the most beautiful places on earth and for the most part everyone wants it protected.
This town is a dump? Excuse me! Try takin’ a ride off the hill sometime and it dosen’t matter in which direction. What will you see? Dirty air, lousy tasting water, crowded freeways, high crime rates and on and on.Crest the hill as you come back to the lake and you breathe a sigh of relief and say to yourself,”God I’m glad I live here”.
The people are worthless? This one really sticks in my craw.SLT is home to many really fine folks. Generous, knd, helpful, talented and so much more.Ever come home from a long day of work and your neighbors shoveled your driveway?Or “hey Old long Skiis I’m going to Scotty’s Hardware, you need anything?” Plates of fresh baked cookies or maybe some BBQ passed around from house to house. Worthless? I think not.
So am I the”Unofficial Goodwill Ambassador” for South Shore? You bet and damn proud of it!!!
Take care, Old Long Skiis
MANY THANKS LONG SKIIS!!
Thank you Old Long Skiis!!! I appreciate our town and the people who live here very much. That is why I moved here twelve years ago and am now raising my family here. I love the sense of community many of my neighbors and friends have and wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Thank you, old long skiis! We need a lot less negativity and a lot more positive attitude in this town to bring us back up!
LOL AT CHAMBER REP. THEY DIDN’T EVEN TIP YOU A BUCK FOR THE HUMOR..
BRING US BACK UP?
WHEN DOES YOUR SHIP SAIL?
Thanks for the accolades from those that agreed SLT is a great place to live! After 5 decades I’m still awestruck by that first dusting of snow on Mt.Tallac, the feel of my pole bending as a big trout takes my hook on the beautiful waters of Tahoe,even a short walk in the meadow lifts my spirits! I haven’t even scratched the surface of all the good things about our community and surrounding areas.
Am I a little defensive about people ridiculing the town I grew up in? To put it mildly,YES!
I know the original topic was about the proposed loop road but some folks will take any chance they can to run SLT down. “Nattering nabobs of negativism”(I can’t believe I just quoted Spiro Agnew).But carry on readers of LTN and become a subscriber to Lake Tahoe News as it will help this worthwhile enterprise expand even further.
Take care, Old Long Skiis
Hang Ups: pay attention please, one more time. TWO CHAMBERS. One in Nevada, paid employees, caters to ski resorts and casinos, pro Loop Road Project, pro Vision Plan, PRO GETTING $163K of YOUR money for NEVADA.
ONE – OURS, IN THE CITY OF SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, NO paid employees, operated by an all volunteer staff of small business owners that fight demolition of SLT business and fight giving OUR money to NEVADA. Also fighting Measure B, which we believe will hurt local business, cause greater unemployment, and close more businesses. How much business license tax increase can you get from a closed business? We don’t get ANY funding from YOUR tax dollars, much less “a buck.” What would you like to volunteer your own time and money to do to help this town?
B is History.
Long Skis: I didn’t know anyone could remember what Spiro Agnew said, I’m impressed!
Am getting tired of negativity, people just making comments to try and stir things up, “us” against “them”. But that said, its also good for people to be able to voice their opinion.
I’m with Long…love this town and will continue to work on making things better and enjoying what we have. Can’t wait for Friday Night farmer’s market on Ski Run, looking forward to concerts at Lakeview Commons, Fireworks on the 4th, Celebrity Golf and so much more!
If hwy 50 from Pioneer through the casinos was only 1 lane in each direction, it’d be nice to see…more people would be walking around and enjoying our town. But, if the Loop Road change is what is needed to get to that point, I’m not in favor of it. I’d rather see the rest of the 54 acre project finished and the hole debacle finished.