Factory Stores at the Y going under
This South Lake Tahoe center used to be bustling.
By Kathryn Reed
One by one businesses at the Factory Stores at the Y have been closing. Now the whole center is on the auction block.
While the notice of default was filed in June 2012, the trustee sale is scheduled for Feb. 27 in Placerville.
Sisters Shannon Casteel and Nancy Irmer, who own the center at the corner of highways 89 and 50 in South Lake Tahoe, use the business name Two Sisters LP. They are based in Genoa. Neither could be reached for comment. Their property manager, Chad Coons, did not return a call.
The sisters bought the center from their brother Gary Casteel in 2004. He still operates the Heavenly Village.
The sisters owe more than $8 million, according to documents.
At one time Casteel also operated Blue Willow Lingerie in the center with her daughter-in-law Lori McKinney.
The last anchor tenant, Adidas, left in December 2011.
Much of the 51,811-square-feet of leasable space has sat empty for years.
Another business is leaving – Fragrance Outlet. Doors will probably be locked for good in April.
Gary Campbell who has operated the store for the last 18 years told Lake Tahoe News he just couldn’t make it anymore. He has significantly slashed prices to get rid of the inventory before he closes shop and moves out of South Lake Tahoe.
“It was pretty obvious when the mall was emptying out that they were in trouble. But they never told us they were in trouble. But when 70 percent of the stores are vacant, they had to be,” Campbell said.
There was a time when it was difficult to find a parking spot at the outlet stores. Locals and tourists would shop there. After the Outdoorsman closed, the factory stores offered one of the few places in town to be able to buy reasonably priced clothes, gifts and other goods.
Campbell said the decline at the factory stores has been combination of things – “Indian casinos, poor economy and poor management for the mall.”
He added, “I just think the whole town is struggling.”
It is very sad to see the South Shore going under like this. It seems to be the trend in the South Shore area, when I drive down the Hwy. and see so many empty buildings and places for sale or lease it is a sad day for South Lake Tahoe.
I wonder what this will do to the tax roles?
Lossing millions of dollars in taxable equity will take a big toll on the communities tax levee plus lead others to challenge tax value on their properties in the area….
As a tourist, I filled my suitcases at the Y. Loved Bass Shoes and Van Heusen
One by one, like clockwork, businesses in Tahoe fail.
The blame game is rampant, but the source of the problem is one that nobody will admit to.
The only solution for Lake Tahoe is less government, lower regulatory burdens & lower taxes.
Lake Tahoe is a microcosm of what is wrong with our nation. The more you burden business with regulation, taxation and government interference, the less business you have. That translates into lower tax revenues, fewer jobs, and a depressed economic environment.
It’s a vicious cycle, and Lake Tahoe will not break out of it until forced to by extreme events.
Too bad to see another group of businesses fail. Maybe Lampsons market will come back (just kidding). OLS
AB that has very little to do with what is going on. In the past decade indian gaming establishments syphoned off many visitors to Tahoe. There has been a structural shift in the demand curves for what Tahoe offers and the result is less demand and so less supply is needed. The casinos did employ 10,000 in 2000 and about 4000 now. That employment base either gets replaced or we need to shrink the town. This is very simple, its like what happened the the buggy market when cars came along. South Lake Tahoe is still selling buggys and wondering why it doesnt work.
The shift in consumer demand part of the above paragraph is critical. That isnt a decrease in demand due to a bump in gas. Shifts in demand tend to be permanent. Welcome to the new normal folks.
Thats where the loop road comes in. We can change from gaming to entertainment, festivals and large events. That would help a great deal. Other than that, good luck. If someone has ideas to attract 6000 new jobs they should post them up. But be sure to include some detail like where the people who will spend the money are going to park.
Now of course you are right about the old regional plan. But I do think the new regional plan may be flexible enough to allow consolidation of properties and coverage and allow redevelopment.
AB, I agree with you in principal. John makes a very good point. The problem AB is I have never EVER heard of any agency EVER giving up power or regulations. Have you? Sure I’ve heard of cases of reorganization (where everyone keeps their jobs at another agency) I’ve heard of cases where political will was so strong things collapsed (think of all the poor government regulators who suddenly lost their job at the end of prohibition). But never willingly. The whole city would need to get behind your proposal, and too many people in charge owe too many favors and have too many friends.
Louis, you’re correct in the respect that no government agency is ever WILLING to give up power.
John, you’re having a tough time seeing the forest through the trees. Tahoe needs to evolve. Yes, the tribal gaming has eroded that industry throughout Nevada.
But Tahoe refuses to change. It is, in essence, a broken business model. It refuses to permit redevelopment for all intensive purposes. And if you think I am wrong, just look at Carson City, Minden & Gardnerville. Those municipalities have taken a large chunk of our business revenue over the course of a short period of time. As Tahoe has shrunk, the Carson Valley has grown. Why?
Lower taxes, lower regulatory burdens, less government.
While the League to Enslave Lake Tahoe, TRPA, and the City of South Lake Tahoe have been hammering businesses to death, development all around the basin has been taking place.
In addition to Carson Valley, have you seen Truckee recently? Lots of jobs, good year round industry, clean, no dilapidated buildings or holes in the ground. They didn’t stop people from developing – they encouraged it. It’s called smart growth, and the Tahoe Basin is unfortunately stuck in 1979 unwilling to evolve.
One other thing John.
All is not lost. Tahoe remains one of the top destinations in the nation. One of the biggest issues we have to overcome is transportation. We need to get people here more easily. I don’t know how to do that, but there has to be a way. People WANT to go to Tahoe. They don’t want to drive US50 or fly into Reno to drive into Tahoe.
If you look at North Tahoe & Truckee, they have a vibrant airport, rail service, I-80 and Reno a mere 30 minutes away.
If you make it easy for people to get here, they will. Right now, it’s a struggle.
I think improved transportation solutions to Tahoe is the first step that needs to happen.
We are a world class resort. Let’s start acting like one.
AB, ohh I know you are on the right track. We do have a broken business model, no doubt. Its embarrassing to have Reno bringing in more dollars from entertainment than us. Just look at the ArTown festival. Even Sparks is doing better than us. Quite clearly the coverage rules have been the single most detrimental regulations for blocking any reasonable redevelopment in the past. But I do think the new regional plan will allow for consolidation and then hopefully walking centers and open space where building used to be. The coverage rules created sprawl that is now delapidated buildings that will never come back. We will see. The current city counsel is not going to be of any use, but the Nevada side and County can take this bull by the horns and get some things done.
More paid parking, that is certainly good for tourism and business.
When are we going to have Q-400’s bring guests to our airport? The new city council has great plans for our city, like a new city attorney. No worries now.
And all that TOT money the city collects (not) will be used productively.
What do YOU want when you decide to go on vacation?
I think people want someplace AUTHENTIC.
Take a walk around Stateline area by the Hole in the Ground. Is that area authentic?
This town has always struggled to know what it is. With the casino’s tanking, we now know what we are NOT.
IMHO we are in that awkward in-between zone. We used to be the middle class, drive up the mountain destination. Right now, the middle class has been kicked so hard they can hardly walk, and I’m not so sure that is going to get a whole lot better anytime soon. We need to up our product, higher quality.
The regulations have killed any start-up here.
The Great Recession has put a nail in it.
What’s the solution?
Look at Lakeview Commons. This town needs to get on with being ITSELF and the visitors will come.
We need to continue with the 56 acre Project and Harrison Avenue upgrades.
Some version of the LOOP Road has to be done. We can’t keep offering up HWY 50 SCAR to our visitors and expect them to come back.
In short, let’s get authentic. People want to come here, let’s give them a reason to stay and return.
…oh and by the way, I heard last week that Big 5 ‘got the keys’ to the Adidas building…any truth to that?
Two factors which, for the most part, haven’t been discussed are the development of the big box stores and shopping centers in the Carson Valley, along with sales over the Internet. This is particularly important for locals, although it doesn’t take visitors staying in the Stateline area or on the Nevada side much longer to get to Carson than to the Y.
It may be that we have way too much retail space to be supported by the current local population and level of visitors. However, another possibility is that if a group is able to by this shopping center at a fire sale price, they may be able to fund tenant improvements and rents that are realistic for today’s economy. I’ll be interested to see what price the center goes for at the auction.
That shopping center needs an update, in the condition it is in, who would you expect to be a tenant? Even a small facelift could do wonders for it, if they have no immediate plans to move forward with anything major, otherwise they are headed into a dead end, IMO.
Ever since the City of South Lake Tahoe raised its city sales tax rate, so sales tax on taxable purchases in this city is the highest in the area, my family has voted with our feet and made extra effort to make our taxable purchases outside the city limits. Retail purchases are now consolidated and usually made in Carson City, Douglas County, and Reno. Our way of protesting the city’s higher sales tax hike.
Bottom line folks….there is absolutely zero leadership to get anything done. Santiago, city council, Douglas, etc. are not even talking about a long range plan. Adding to the problem is that the reality of our citizenry is that they do not want change. They don’t and that folks is just the way it is.
Dryclean I agree with 90% of what you wrote, its sad but true. However Edgewood Companies is different. They do have a vision and the money to make it happen. Look for them to be a driving influence on the Nevada side. The really sad part is the City Council is more interested in competing with Nevada than working with Nevada. It is really pathetic.
John, thank you. Edgewood is not stupid and they know that without Ceaser’s stepping up and either selling or remodeling, without Heavenly investing (which they won’t until real estate picks up, without a loop road, without the hole becoming something that will drive tourism, without an airport, without the Kmart look of SLT changing, without a large scale and long range vision plan, etc. any investment on their part will wait until they can see a future on south shore. Yes, they would like to do something because their properties (golf course, Horizion, etc) are not growing as an investment or in terms of revenues. However they won’t because the return on investment will be meager to nil. They are too smart to invest when no one else will do the same.
“Edgewood is not stupid”
How could they not know about a seventy million dollar project that would benefit them and their lessees?
TTD was out spending thousands maybe millions on studies and know one told Park?
Sunriser, do you have a point? Everyone knows about the loop road. Yes, it helps all of the businesses in the core area including on the California side and the entire region. It fundamentally reshapes the type of entertainment we offer. Explain how that is bad.
So SLT is being strangled to death from both ends of town! Factory Stores at the Y closing and now a proposed loop road circumventing businesses up by stateline that will surely hurt business at Crescent V and the surrounding area while at the same time benefit the casinos and Edgewood.
To be honest the middle of town isn’t lookin’ so good either. Too many closed stores and restaurants. Half the homes on my street are empty 99% of the time. No new construction as we’ve overbuilt and now there’s rows of vacant homes everywhere that sit empty or are for sale.
As someone wrote earlier “it’s time we turn this ship around” and I couldn’t agree more. If we don’t right this ship we will turn back into the sleepy town I remember from the 50’s. It looks like that is where we’re headed. Good Luck, Old Long Skiis
Old Long Skiis, yes that is the darn point. Think about it for a second instead of lamenting what was, think of what can be. You have never, not once, considered that there could be a new form of entertainment (REVENUE) centered in the downtown core that benefits both Nevada and California.
I, for one, would welcome the sleeping town of the 50’s. Get these vacation rental tourists out of our neighborhoods. Hey, turn the factory stores into a nice, not high priced, condo/hotel, 2 stories at most, with lots of open space. Even include a coffee shop.
Steven, you want the sleepy town of the fifties? Move to Georgetown on the Western slope. The rest of us would like to continue making a living here in our HOME town! Maybe you haven’t noticed, but the demographics of tourism has changed a WEE bit since the 1950’s, and a large part of that change, ALL ACROSS OUR NATION”S TOURIST DESTINATIONS, has been the increasing popularity of vacation rentals. Welcome to the 21st century! Love it, or, well you really have no choice.
John, I’ve had several ideas that I thought would bring in revenue to SLT and they’ve been posted here on LTN as well as talked about with a member of the city council.
What I was saying is that more places are closing and more people are moving away than are moving in which is never a good sign for a small town.
Any ideas you have would be greatly appreciated concerning a “new form of entertainment”.
Thanks for your time and hoping to hear some good suggestions. Old Long Skiis
Steven, Atomic. Steven, I like your idea for a hotel/condo going up at the Factory Stores at the Y. It’s always been a retail outfit there as long as I can remember. Lots of parking and easily accesible. The cost of a remodel and sewer permits would probably prevent this from ever happening, but I do like the idea.
Atomic, I hadn’t heard of the Big 5 rumor for the Adidas store but if true that would be cool. I’d prefer Cabelas take over the whole center myself but I’ll take whatever we can get. Old Long Skiis
Good god OLS. Please try to think about this a little. Highway 50 is a state highway. It cannot be closed regularly. The loop enables traffic to access the back of the core, in both California and Nevada. Then we can have festivals, music events, state fairs…all down in the core. And who knows, maybe a kid wont freeze to death trying to get back to her hotel room in the core.
Reno Nevada has done this and they have their core closed for events from June through August and it brings in millions.
Finally, I have listened to your ideas and they are good for 100 jobs tops. We need to replace 6000 jobs lost. Guess what OLS, the casinos in Nevada were the largest employers for people who live in California. Yet Joann wants to make sure we dont help them at all. Brilliant!
OLS. You cannot have old Tahoe back. But Joann and her cronies can prevent the Tahoe of the future.
Screw It!!!
JUST BUILD A WALMART ,PROBLEM SOLVED!
People keeping saying no competition,I like to see some these over priced business compete with a place besides the Village Eye Sore.
Walmart with grocies,auto center,garden center, would make it very insteresting at that end town,with whom ever in the middle might pick up few bucks just from the drive bys.
Nothing else, give some locals a place to be employeed without the family core low wages, no perks, they now currently offer.
John,
What I’m suggesting is for ways to stimulate the local economy right here in So. Shore. I’m not anti casino, far from it. I hate to think how much money I’ve spent at Lakeside over the years and the other casinos as well.I go to the concerts at Harveys parking lot and sometimes the car shows.
I just want to see So. Shore thrive. Employ more workers for the city and in the private sector. Businesses opening rather than closing, more improvments to city properties like the great job that was done with El Dorado Beach,(sorry, still hate the new name). Fix our roads, build more parks (Bijou park is an excellent example), more events for locals and tourists alike and all being done right here in So. Shore.
I don’t see the necesity for a loop road. The casinos already have festivals, craft fairs, live music and a bunch more stuff right on their own properties.
I know I can’t have Old Tahoe back, although I would like 25 cent gas back! So John, I don’t have a bone to pick with you, we just see things differently. Let bygones be bygones. Take Care, Old Long Skiis
‘cabelas’…no loop road…no sass…i rest my case…
fromform,
So are you with me or against me? I think a Cabelas store would be great at the Y since we lost The Outdoorsman all those many years ago.
Loop road? Well you know where I stand on that.
Sass I don’t know much about him other than who funded a large part of his campaign. OLS
John, it’s obvious to most of us that you work at Stateline and probably in Nevada. Just to set the record straight, I am not anti-casino or anti-Nevada. I have family and friends who live and work there too.
What I am “anti” is destroying 90 businesses, hundreds of jobs for people who live in South Lake Tahoe, and residences and homes for a large number of people in SLT. That is not “anti” Tahoe of the future. It is my job to help the people in the City of South Lake Tahoe first.
Nothing has been shown on the Loop Road that would benefit us. That is not a partnership. Just because your neighbor wants to destroy your home or business so he can make more money or have a better view doesn’t mean you are “anti” neighbors if you say no.
Partnerships benefit both sides. Looking for that solution, and would rather spend my time bringing more business and events to South Lake Tahoe than fighting for the life of our jobs and businesses at Stateline, not to mention homes.
Fromform I added a whole bunch of stuff to my original response but for some reason it din’t make it through to LTN, heck I even praised Tom Davis for his stance on paid parking. I’m not going to peck my long winded missive out again OLS e mail bobroxtahoe@yahoo.com
A vision starts with professionals who have lived and worked off this mountain. Wanna know what tourists want? Ask them. This town needs to stop chasing away outside ideas and needs to start incorporating people who have lived off this mountain. It’s that local closeminded mindest that just doesn’t get it. Wanna know what your problem is with City Leaders? They are homegrown ignorant. I don’t mean that in a derogatory way, but how can anyone present sustainable ideas if they keep that local closeminded attitude? These people are truly ignorant to the business ways of the outside world.
“Sunriser, do you have a point? Everyone knows about the loop road. Yes, it helps all of the businesses in the core”
At the beginning of the latest discussion about the loop road they claimed they didn’t know it was going to happen.
Personally I can’t see how casinos who can’t keep their signs lit are going to spend tens of millions to remodel their hwy frontages or how they could recoup that money with closing the street for chili cook offs etc.
Atomic, Just heard from a reliable source that Big 5 is maybe comin’ to town. I don’t want to get my hopes up as I heard years ago they were moving into the building that is now occupied by TJ Maxx. Many years ago that was a Sprouse Reitz store.
So we shall see what happens. In the old Adidas store?Hoping to see some new businesses in town and what could be better than a sporting goods store?
Whats next? A rifle range with gun safety courses like I went through as a youngin’? An archery target area? Teach’n kids to fish out at Sawmill pond, learn to ski and board thru the local school system. Lets hope some off these things come to pass.
Optomistic Long Skiis
Might want to take a look at the access from hwy 50 heading West. If you miss the small first entrance you have to go the airport to find a safe place to turn around.
Some of those smart out of town thinkers at Cal Trans did a great job redesigning the intersection, but it is bicycle and pedestrian friendly!!
Joanne, so you ran on creating jobs. Been three months and I have never heard anything out of your mouth about jobs at a city council meeting. Start putting something substantive on the council agenda. All we have since you have been there is parking meters and plastic bags.
Also, how about a big idea. Like Old Long Skis at best your ideas are worth 100 jobs…..when and if you ever get to that. I fear you will become one of the old boys like Cole and Davis and Laine and never move this town forward. Make my vote for you not regrettable.
I wrote the following regarding the Loop Road article but after seeing this article it can easily apply here as well.
I recently watched and closely listened to the January 29th City Council Special meeting at which the candidate applicants to serve the remainder of Claire Fortier’s term were interviewed. It was so refreshing to hear so many new voices of intelligent and capable individuals in our community speaking out and offering positive, well thought out visions and suggestions on how to turn the tide on the demise of SLT so there might be something left here for the next generation other than more empty dilapidated storefronts and even fewer employment opportunities at jobs paying minimum wage. I was pleased and impressed at the vision some of these individuals possess, their forward thinking, and their understanding that the status quo will bring death to this town. This City is extremely broken and in serious need of fixing and the very stale “same old-same old, leave it alone, it’s good enough” type of thinking won’t make anything better, it will only guarantee more of the same which is the continued decline of SLT. And trying to go back to the past is going backward, and it doesn’t work. Fortunately some of the individuals who spoke actually give me hope that there’s some chance for a decent future for SLT. I hope some of these individuals will run for office in 2014 and 2016, get elected, and start infusing some much needed new thinking on how to solve SLT’s problems and right this ship.
Dryclean, I understand and share your frustration.I was sworn in two months ago, December 11th.Things do move slowly in government, but there is work being done to bring jobs.
For example,the Recreation JPA is working with the City (I am the rep on that commission) and our fields will be upgraded and new ones added. That will bring more tournaments here, and more work for our locals. There is work with the Rec JPA and City to refurbish bike paths, another reason for people to come to Tahoe.
We are exploring what we need to do to attract businesses, and jobs, to Tahoe.Stay tuned.
The plastic bag ban was on tap before I came on Council, and one of the reasons we didn’t say yes yet, was because of the harm it would do to businesses.More work on that.
Paid parking will help too, although I know not everyone sees that.
Big ideas are in the works, but two months isn’t enough time to make them happen yet. I know 100 jobs doesn’t sound like much to some, but that is more money being spent in our town, and that means growth and upgrades.
I run two businesses in this town and still do, I think, a decent job of responding to phone calls, texts, and emails when citizens have an idea or want to know more about why something is happening.
Keep the communication open and please don’t give up on me yet.
Joann, I am an MBA/CPA with 20 years of business consulting experience. I live and work on the California side. But my livelihood, like the livelihoods of everyone here is tied to the regional economy. Anyone that would even consider the state line in their economic analysis of this region does not understand the local economy.
Just so we are clear. We have lost over 6000 jobs in the last decade and the population is down over 10 percent in the last decade. The numbers are huge and the trend is ominous.
The core including the casinos and Heavenly Village must be the economic driver. This is very simple math. But each dollar spent in a local economy can generate $3-4 in additional spending. Its called a multiplier effect. So the job is to replace about $360 Million in economic activity, or somewhere in the range of $100 million in new spending.
That cant be done at El Dorado Beach. That cant be done with Big 5. So you have no plan that is anything like the scale of the problem we face. Unless you have a plan to shrink the town.
Joann, you would do well to read a little about market research. Here is a link to Ribaudo’s website on tourism marketing strategy. http://smgonline.net/services-solutions/#economic
Notice Carl starts by analyzing the strengths inherent to the local area and then polls customers on what they want.
Start there.
Yes indeed Councilmember Connor, it’s about time you got on board with the proven success of ultra-smart, in-the-know conservative “business consultants” that have known for over 30 years that facilitating the 1%ers brings trickle-down wealth to every segment of society. Maybe if you had very expensive college degrees in economics(with a minor in Condescending Bloviation) you would know that funneling money to Douglas Co. has worked wonders for our town for decades!
Bijou Bill,
I get where your comming from but John has always been spot on with his facts. Thinking on a larger scale is needed. The world is a much smaller place than when we were waiting at the Deadhead for our names to be called over the speaker telling us our table at the Red Hut was ready. I truly love our Mountian town. If you love something you want to see it grow and be successful. That means new ideas and changing old habits. It isn’t easy, but we have to keep up. As Bob Dylan says “The times they are a changing.”
Laketoohigh, “…John has always been spot on with his facts.” Please enlighten me about which facts you refer to. And in your statement, “That means new ideas and changing old habits.”, I heartily agree… our old habits are hoping that the 1% are going to help all our citizens out of the goodness of their hearts if we just give them a little bit more.
Bijou, we are not going to solve the issues of capitalism versus enlightened socialism. As a matter of fact I voted for Obama several times. However, none of that really applies when we look at local economics. You have a job, you leave a tip at a restaurant, that server then buys a car. Money gets recycled. Its just how money works. Over the past decade many millions in salaries and wages have been pulled out of the local economy due to restructuring in gaming.
It is about to get worse. Grants from SNPLMA have been proping up local business and the economy. SNPLMA is almost dried up. Local environmental agencies are laying off people, and more money is being pulled out of the system.
Bijou, this is non-partisan, even in the USSR, they needed some economic engine. I dont care how liberal you are. It is imperative that the local government officials recognize the scale of the issue. I dont think Joann gets it, in fact I know she doesnt. But she is vocal about her “us versus them” mentality. We dont have time for that now. We are at a cross roads and no matter what we have a very complex and difficult path in front of us. Bijou, economically, we are in a place very similar to Detroit.
Now obviousely we have a lake and we have Heavenly Village and the casinos. We have Hot August Nights and the air races, all of which can be leveraged into new opportunities. But we need leaders, not people who want to encourage division.
John, I’ll just pick one sentence of your facts. “Over the past decade many millions in salaries and wages have been pulled out of the local economy due to restructuring in gaming.” Do you need very expensive college degrees to actually write that double-speak? First it should read “decades”, from about the 80’s. Secondly, this time frame coincides with corporate takeover of the Stateline casinos by the “corporations are people my friend!” scum and their jackbooted firing of long-time employees. The slide into our current situation started right there with the demise of middle-class Tahoe replaced by race to the bottom wages and quarterly profit over community long-term prosperity…. And we Don’t have Hot August Nights and the air races, Reno does.
Well I wonder if we have new business owners in town today?
Yes, I’m curious too, any word?
I never knew there were outlet shops @ the Y.
never been there, did I miss anything?
I wonder how long TJ Maxx will last.
Just a question – would parking meters be like the ones in the cities? Metal stands that a person would put coins in it for parking time? An answer would be appreciated. One more thing, the community would greatly benefit from the airport being re-vampted, not just a place where the city council meets, and a restuarant resides – what a waste-sending people to visit via Reno has a likelihood that visitors ( besides outdoors people)will stay in Reno instead of taking a bus trip up here. What I am suggesting is to spend some money( I know the city and/or county has very limited finances)to get the airport opperatable. By the way, is the airport in city limits or in El Dorado County? Next time anybody goes past the signs, try to figure that one out. Thank You