S. Tahoe embarks — again — on a plan for the Y
The cover of the draft Tahoe Valley Community Plan from March 2007. The area of study is largely the same today. Photo/LTN
By Kathryn Reed
A greenbelt going behind McDonald’s and CVS at the Y in South Lake Tahoe. Another on the other side of Highway 50. Both being multidimensional by being stormwater basins, greenways and recreation conduits.
Those are ideas being floated in the Tahoe Valley Area Plan.
More than 60 people interested in what South Lake Tahoe is going to do with the Y attended a meeting Feb. 27 to offer input and hear what the city is thinking. Area plans are the Tahoe Regional Planning Agency’s latest planning tool for jurisdictions.
The city for years has tried to come up with a plan for what is considered the locals’ side of town. It has never happened.
A team of community members in 2007 came up with a plan only to have the city wrestle it from their grip.
In a September 2009 Lake Tahoe News story Pat Frega, who served as a city planning commissioner and a Tahoe Valley Community Plan committee member, said at the time that even after two years, a majority of the dozen citizens who served on the community group still felt the project “was hijacked” by a council subcommittee because “we were going on a different course than what they wanted.”
The city took over and came up with a plan. It, too, went nowhere.
City officials say they are determined to have a plan approved, with the goal of it being completed by the end of the year.
Another idea is to have a health care campus concept for Barton Health.
“We are encouraging the hospital to create a master plan for the whole district,” John Hitchcock, city planner, said. “It would integrate all of their facilities.”
The original plan talked about having a mountain feel. But it was acknowledged that could mean different things to different people.
Paul Brusso, owner of Ernie’s restaurant, and Dan Passaretti of Passaretti’s restaurant both voiced concern about whether their businesses would conform to whatever zoning rules the city implements. “Yes” was the answer.
People had the opportunity to place sticky dots on pictures of mountain architecture they liked. The Cedar House Sport Hotel in Truckee had the most dots.
One person expressed a desire to have mountain architecture, but hoped that there would still be room for originality so everything did not look the same.
Architect Keith Klein said it’s important to take into consideration what people see at eye level, especially if eye level is from the seat of a vehicle.
“You can put up a 3-foot fence and hide cars,” Klein said in a veiled reference to Runnels Automotive.
John Runnels said he has wanted to make improvements since the 1980s. Interest rates stopped him in 1981 and then the city said wait until the 1993 plan was done. But no plan has ever been approved for the Y.
While people embraced connecting the areas of town, several said they never see the Y area as someplace that will be pedestrian oriented, especially when it comes to locals going to stores via foot from their residences.
Height of buildings has been an issue with other area plans in the basin. On Thursday it did not present a huge dilemma. People wanted to understand what 56 feet would look like. That is what the TRPA Regional Plan allows for in town centers.
Embassy Suites is 80 feet, the parking garage is about 50 feet.
Chuck Nelson had a handout of an elevated circular bypass for cyclists that Holland has built that he could see being put in at the Y.
Jerome Evans, who worked on community plan, told Lake Tahoe News, “There is no reason to believe any of this will happen. They are making everyone feel good and nothing is happening.”
The area plan is not a project, but instead a blueprint for what the Y could evolve into. It will be up to the city and private individuals to devise projects that will go through a separate approval process.
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Notes:
• The South Lake Tahoe Planning Commission will discuss the area plan March 13.
• The City Council will talk about it April 1.
• Another public workshop is set for late April.
I still don’t understand why everybody picks on John Runnel’s place. Yes, it looks like an old gas station. So what?? He keeps it scrupulously clean and tidy. How many other business owners do you see outside on a regular basis, sweeping up the sidewalks around their business?
Is it just because he has been open about his conservative bent? Because I sure can’t see any other reason. There are businesses that look much worse in the area, and we hear nary a peep from the peanut gallery.
With the passage of the TRPA’s Regional Plan Update (originally called “Pathway 2007” which was 5-years late in its design and passage) the outdated Community Plans can now be replaced with Area Plans that have wrestled some control away from the TRPA and provide more planning and development latitude to local jurisdictions in the basin. I recognize that the City was waiting for the RPUs approval prior to any final decision-making for the Y-area and am hopeful that the Tahoe Valley Area Plan (which supplants the Tahoe Valley Community Plan that was designed under the old Community Plans specs) will come to fruition and be approved at year-end. While the Y needs work I think there’s potential for it to be really great and believe we residents deserve that.
Instead of going directly to criticizing people may want to consider becoming involved in the eventual outcome.
Dogula:
Perhaps part of what people find offensive is the condition of the vehicles that look like old rust buckets. I use to restore Corvettes and collectible cars when I lived in the Bay Area and no jurisdiction would have allowed an outdoor display of beat-up cars such as those at the Y no matter what their year and make. The Y is the largest intersection in the City and is fairly much the entrance into South Lake Tahoe. It’s called curb-appeal. You can scrub down and put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig.
I do not see anything wrong with Runnel’s corner, it is clean and tidy and the vintage cars in various states of repair are an education for our children about how cars used to be maintainable and last multiple generations. My son loves to see the cars and talks about their architectural designs! I would hate to see a fence there!
I’m with Tahoemom!
The buildings and parking lot across the street are nothing fabulous to look at. Sure, beautification is a good thing. Everybody is trying to improve the looks of things little by little. But Runnels’ place has been singled out by folks repeatedly while other businesses are left alone. I just happen to think it’s likely because of Mr. Runnels’ politics.
Personally, I love seeing the old cars there. They get improved little by little. It’s a BUSINESS, it isn’t a park.
I completely agree that there are numerous blighted businesses in South Lake Tahoe and hope that the new Area Plans will force those property owners to address their eyesores. It’s time for South Lake Tahoe’s built environment to stop being a blight on its natural environment. A large part of the built environment in this City cannot be considered “mountain charm” but instead is just shabby and rundown, and there are a lot of people who live here who want better for our town.
Runnel’s is not even a business. He has it roped off and won’t let anyone on the property. The cars don’t run and are essentially abandoned. Not only should the city make him remove the cars but shut down his fake business. and sell it to some that will do something productive.
He was going to make improvements in the 80’s its 2014.
Mr Runnels you and you fake business need to go. You are a perfect example of what is wrong in SLT.
I like old cars so I’m a bit biased here in regards to Mr. Runnels collection. My advice would be to, as money allows, gettin’ some of them painted and parked in front. Put the older ones in need of work in the back behind the freshly painted ones.
I wish I held on to some of the cars I had over the years. Shoulda, coulda, woulda!
Dogula, I don’t think people are picking on John Runnels because of his political beliefs. My advice to you is to get out your seed catalog and start planning for this spring. It might do you good on this snowy day. Classic cars and vegetable gardens…and I combined those two? OLS
I too like looking at the old cars at Runnels and he doesn’t have trash blowing around. I find the vast expanse of asphalt across the street much more offensive — TJ Maxx doesn’t have enough customers to fill the parking lot so some of that asphalt should be removed and planted with drought resistant plantings. We’ll have to see what happens if the smaller building is torn down and a Bev-Mo is built – hope it is not as big and boxy as most Bev-Mo stores!
I too will chime in – many many buildings in town are much bigger eyesores than Runnels – and yes his property IS maintained and kept clean. I would be more worried about why 2/3 of the Lampson Plaza and old Sports LTD space remains vacant
Mrs T. Hopefully that parking lot will be more filled up when both BevMo and and DSW(designer shoe warehouse) come in. I have heard that the design for BevMO will match TJ Maxx. I to believe that the old cars dont belong in the gateway to the city, if they were painted and looked great that would be another matter, as it is not it looks like a car salvage yard.
1. Leave John Runnels alone. I like his cars. And he has the right to do what he wants there. If someone doesn’t like it, buy him out.
2. The entrance to our town is the Y intersection. Change the Y into a “roundabout”. Put a monument or art work in the middle. Or even a bronze statues of our 3 gold medal winners.
3. For those of you who say it won’t work….take a look at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. I have. Stood on top, counted the intersections that come into this landmark.
Eleven to be exact. And with several multi-lanes coming in and out. Week day mornings they have a couple of cops out there to help with some of the morning traffic.
4. On Sunday afternoons when the traffic is a problem at the Y, put a cop there to help. 98% of the time we would never have to stop at the Y.
5. Put another round about in Meyers at Pioneer Trail and H50.
6. Sunday heavy traffic will always have backups because it is two lanes going over the summit, whether you have traffic lights or a roundabout. But over all roundabouts are best.
“Roundabouts” work, they save power, save time, save nerves, save lives, and save gas. A monument of some type in the center would be a great way to enter SLT.
What ever we do with our Y area, it should be done first class. Not low bid.
Make us all proud.
I LOVE those old cars!! I call them cartoon cars! Reminds me of pictures young kids draw, and I always think of the movie “Christmas Story” with the Dad changing the tire beside the snowy street…Nostalgia…ahhh yesss! All Runnnels needs is an old restored gas pump and coke machine and have all the prettier cars on the perimeter, and heck there’s a tourist attraction right there! John?? are you listening? Just my 2 cents….
I want to add another ingredient here. The blight in this town is far worse in the frontage of residential districts. While we here are discussing the blight of highway 50 frontage, there are people’s homes that look like a junk yard. I’m not exaggerating. Here’s an address for people to look at, 2576 Palmira . This place is behind the REMAX office. I’ve seen seen plenty of other examples.
Les Wright : We don’t have the money to do the things you suggest.
Les is on to something here in regards to establishing substantial, permanent recognition of our Olympians. Whether it’s a statue in a roundabout, I’m not sure.
What I do know is what these athletes accomplished as residents of our “mountain town” is without question the best marketing/branding opportunity to come SLT’s way in a generation. We should be talking about renaming highways, buildings and mountains for the amount of attention their success brought our direction, not to mention the platform they created for this place.
It’s not hyperbole to say the entire world is clamoring for information about us at the moment. What do we have to show them?
tahoe Pizza eater. I know of that house you mentioned on Palmira. Not cool to put the address in LTN. Call Code Enforcement at 542-6135 or Clean Tahoe at 544-4210. That’s a better way to go about it. Thanks, OLS
Les, the roundabout idea doesn’t work. It didn’t work 6 years ago when the idea was floated, it doesn’t work now. The merging of two lanes into one heading south on 50 is the deal breaker and that cannot be solved.
Les, many years ago an old Police Sergeant told me his “Cyclical Theory of Traffic Control.”
You take a cop, put him in the middle of an intersection and let him wave his arms around and try to control traffic. For 15 minutes.
Then you have him go sit in his car for 15 minutes until the traffic has straightened itself out.
Come to think of it, he was telling me his theory because someone had wanted him to put a cop at the Y to try to correct holiday weekend traffic that was backed up all the way from Kyburz. I think the someone was the Mayor. A little time and I might even recall her name.
Mr. Wright:
You are aware that if a roundabout had been constructed at the Y that Mr. Runnels, the property owners at the TJ Maxx location and at the factory stores at the Y would all have needed to give up substantial curbside frontage to accommodate that? Plus the bus station would have likely needed to be relocated. How would pedestrian and handicapped street crossing been addressed at that intersection and what about bike lanes? Don’t get me wrong, I think roundabouts can be aesthetically pleasing, especially in smaller intersections, but I question the practicality of attempting to construct such at the Y where big-rigs and their trailers need to travel through this Federal Highway intersection.
The roundabout in Paris was constructed a long time ago when there was no traffic and it’s been a nightmare to navigate for a very long time now. Contrasting the Y intersection to the roundabout in Paris is an unfair comparison and the following regarding that Paris roundabout was taken from Wikipedia:
“The Place Charles de Gaulle, historically known as the Place de l’Étoile, is a large road junction in Paris, France and is the meeting point of twelve straight avenues. Its historic name translates as “Square of the Star” and it was constructed by the Marquis de Marigny in 1777 and was the point of convergence of several hunting trails. There is no pedestrian access to the Arc de Triomphe from any of the twelve avenues as there is constant movement of automobile traffic on and around the road junction.”
Highway 50 is a Federal Highway for which Caltrans has the responsibility and the Y intersection is a part of that. Caltrans said they wouldn’t do a roundabout when this topic was on the table a few years back and placing the financial burden and responsibility on the City and the local taxpayers for a roundabout at that intersection is unfair.
Moral Hazard
I disagree that a roundabout doesn’t work.
The example given by Les Wright is accurate. Roundabouts as designed in Europe work. Roundabouts as designed in the US don’t because they are primarily used to slow down traffic. US roundabout design is too small. An appropriately sized roundabout at the Y would enhance traffic flow and the enjoyment of coming to Tahoe.
Old Long Skis : I have to disagree with you this time. The people of this community are seeing their property values harmed by the residential plight. The address that I mentioned is among the worst offenders. The city government should not allow this to have gone this far. It’s time to state directly where the problems lie and put pressure on city council to act. I know of no better way to go about this than to make it known to the public where the most serious offenders are, and point them out publicly. I’m expecting some of the readers here to drive by and take a look at what I’m talking about. The address is 2576 Palmira, behind the REMAX office. There are city ordinances against that. If anyone there doesn’t like this, they can clean up their mess.
As I recall we got to the center of the Arc de Triomphe via a tunnel.
Pedestrian access at the Y would be done via a subway under the road and our “roundabout” and have an elevator for the disabled. There is no problem that can not be solved for anything we do or want.
ANOTHER THING : The people that are subjected to the residential plight that I’m pointing out are helpless to do anything about it. Think for a minute ! If you are living next to an offender you don’t have any authority to go onto someone’s property, load up the garbage, and take it to the dumps. That would be theft. The only way to get this problem resolved is through the city code enforcement office. And city code enforcement is not doing their job.
The roundabout will not work without a cop to keep the $#@&&% from grid locking the intersection.
I love the old cars and also think the lot is well kept.
Drake the chain is only up when he goes home or to lunch.
If he had a pile of old bicycles instead of cars they would have a parade in his honor.
The roundabout will not work without a cop to keep the $#@&&% from grid locking the intersection.
I love the old cars and also think the lot is well kept.
Drake the chain is only up when he goes home or to lunch.
If he had a pile of old bicycles instead of cars they would have a parade in his honor.
And while were on the subject of the “Y” who came up with the design for the up-graded intersection a few years ago? If you miss the first small entrance to the Factory Stores you have to break the law or go to the airport and turn around. The design is so bad on highway 89 the paint crew can’t even figure out how to stripe it.
It bet it’s designed to be better for all the imaginary tourists that will walk there or ride the bus from the casinos to shop.
Wow, suddenly everyone is an “expert” on the Y.
Runnels stay or move? Don’t know, but the City got a lot of people to move for the Gondola.
Roundabout? Maybe. Seems to work over in Truckee. However, 80 is a year round highway; 50 is not.
Attract folks back to the Y. Start by putting back the Movie Theater(s) that went to the Horizon. Has anybody seen the Horizon lately? Take a close look.
Mr. Wright:
I would agree that no problem can’t be solved for anything we do or want but would add the caveat “if there are enough resources to throw at it”. Anything can be done with enough money but unfortunately this town doesn’t have the resources to even pave our residential streets, install streetlights, construct drainage vaults to collect street runoff for infiltration purposes, do the TMDLs mandated by Lahontan, build adequate sidewalks for pedestrians use to get them off of the streets during inclement weather, etc., etc. The only reason we even have new bicycle trails or improvements to the existing trails is because of the greater availability of grant funding by the Feds and State as they attempt to get people out of their cars to reduce vehicle miles traveled and emissions.
I very much admire your vision for the lofty but without an endless supply of money some things remain out of reach.