Plastic bag ban working in South Lake Tahoe
By Kathryn Reed
If the number of people who showed up at a meeting this week about South Lake Tahoe’s plastic bag ban is an indication of it how it is working, it’s working well.
Four members of the public attended the May 14 meeting to talk about what is working and what isn’t. Mayor Hal Cole and Councilmember JoAnn Conner were also in attendance. City Attorney Tom Watson ran the meeting.
On this same day a state Assembly panel moved forward a proposal to ban plastic bags throughout California.
The ban for South Lake Tahoe grocery stores started in mid-January, while others will not be able to hand out the one-time use bags starting Oct. 15.
Connie Hinton, who owns a thrift store in town, worries about what will happen when she is no longer allowed to package people’s goods in plastic bags. She said it would have an economic impact.
Today she is given bags from customers – plastic and paper – that she reuses for other customers. She would still be able to use the paper.
Hinton said there is a bit of inequity in that the Attic, another thrift store, will be able to use plastic bags in the future because it is a nonprofit.
Nonprofits are exempt from the bag ban. However, it is still impacting them. Bread & Broth used to have a plethora of grocery store plastic bags to fill with goods for people to take with them at the end of the meal. Now the group is relying on other businesses to donate bags, such as Heavenly Sports and Michael’s.
Priscilla Rohrich’s problem with the ban is that she said it isn’t helping the environment because people are buying boxes of plastic bags to line their garbage cans instead using a bag that once held groceries. She has a problem with corporations benefiting from South Lake Tahoe’s decision.
Karen Fink, who was instrumental in bringing the bag ban to the council, said she finds no need to buy bags. Her family has found ways to use bags from cereal boxes, bread and other items in lieu of the grocery store plastic bags.
Councilmember Conner made the false comment that some stores have stopped charging for paper.
When Fink asked her which stores, Conner snidely said, “You are going to have to figure that out yourself.”
So, Lake Tahoe News did. What was discovered is Conner was lying. Raley’s charges 5 cents for paper, Safeway 10 cents for paper, and Grocery Outlet 5 cents for paper and 10 cents for reusable plastic bags.
The four major grocery stores in the city limits (there are two Raley’s) all say the ban wasn’t welcome at first, but now customers have gotten used to it.
Victor Guerrero at the Raley’s near Stateline told Lake Tahoe News people even sued the chain because of the policy. The store prevailed.
“It’s working. People are slowly remembering their bags,” Guerrero said of people using reusable bags.
A Safeway clerk said a good number of people bring their own bags, while others pay for paper.
Conner also said there has been more shoplifting with people filling reusable bags or walking out with carts full of goods. None of the above mentioned stores mentioned this as a problem to Lake Tahoe News.
The council is expected to discuss the plastic bag ban at the June 17 meeting.
It’s working because this was forced. Safeway and Raleys would bring the bags back in a second. Where is the environmental studie showing how this is working? Was one even done here in the Sierra’s showing how this is really is affecting us or are we going off of studies done in San Jose from a city with a million people… CVS, Kmart , every gas station and liquor stores all have plastic bags. Round hill has plastic… Increased use of brown paper bags isn’t helping ether. What are all the brown bags made from? Brown bags will always stay around now as an option at the store but at what real cost to the Sierra’s? Now on top of it we have almost every company in town using this as a marketing tool and ordering reusable bags with their company logo. Almost all are MADE IN CHINA. Another winning move in the right direction.
I went to DIY a couple of days ago to buy some small items, guess what they put them in a plastic bag what is the difference ?????
IT stinks.Its stupid ,And its not right .some stores do .some do not Charge not right, Its all stupid,Its called pocking change for the stores when you pay,When the employees are short ,it covers there butt,Are they that hard up?Its not working,
Its working because it is the right thing to do. What a. Bunch of whiners we have in this town. Boo hoo, I cant have my gazillion plastic bags. Whaaaaa…get over yourselves…
I do not agree with government prohibitions whatsoever.
However, the entire plastic bag discussion was a typical liberal, environmental disaster from the beginning.
Plastic bags came to being because environmentalists demanded them to “save the trees”. This was about 25 years ago. The liberal environmental whackjobs, you know, the same people who tell you about the Global Warming fairy tale every day but fly on the airlines to the far reaches of the world regularly, demanded that grocers stop using paper bags as it was killing the forests.
So the grocers went to plastic bags. Now I have never liked & rarely used the plastic bags. Why? Well, they suck for starters. Your groceries end up all over the place in your car. They you have to throw the damn things away, as there is little use for them after brining them home.
So in essence, the bag ban is a non-event, but here we are, bag with paper. The tree huggers must be crapping in their pants now.
The ban is working for me. About 50% of the time I grocery shop, I forget my re-usable bags. But before checking out I go to my car and get the bags. Now and then I have paid for bags, not a big deal. Every little bit helps to save the environment. That is cool that the whole state is looking to go the same way!
The fact is they have taken away your choice. Impossed pointless laws for only a small few to fallow. Almost everything is packaged in the same plastic as the bags. How about the impossible to open rigid plastic clamshell packages? Can you even try to reuse those? Nope! But the plastic bags I have been reusing and taking my lunch to work in for years. Then reusing a third time to throw away cat litter is now the worst thing in the world.
Choose real battles…
The number of people in attendance is a sign of apathy not how well banning plastic bags is working. Of course it’s working – take away plastic bags and there will be less around. Nice spin!! What are the people of SLT going to do?? Attendance at a meeting is not going bring back plastic bags any more than attendance at a STUPD meeting is going keep rates from going up. This town is forced to endure the will of the council not the will of the people
Global warming doesn’t exist because liberals fly on planes. Tell me more, Mr. Science Man!
I still don’t see how this “saves the emvironment”. We re-used our bags to line the bathroom trash cans, to dispose of kitty liter, and to pick up dog poo. Now we have to buy plastic garbage bags for this, which contain MUCH MORE PLASTIC.
The average kitchen garbage bag has 500 times the amount of plastic that a grocery bag has. So ONE kitchen bag is equal to 500 grocery bags. Are we going to ban those next? What about plastic water bottles? Ban ’em! Plastic sandwich bags? Ban ’em! It’s ludicrous.
Nonprofits are exempt from the bag ban. However, it is still impacting them. Bread & Broth used to have a plethora of grocery store plastic bags to fill with goods for people to take with them at the end of the meal. Now the group is relying on other businesses to donate bags, such as Heavenly Sports and Michael’s
Um, doesn’t this defeat the whole purpose of the ban? Banned for some and not others? I’m pretty sure the environment doesn’t differentiate between non profits and others. Typical liberal stupidity.
Ok ok now, calling a sitting Councilwoman a “Liar” is going a little too far . Sure it is a current policy by Raleys, Safeway, and Grocery outlet to charge for the brown bags and Eco friendly plastic shopping bags. But I can attest with first hand knowledge that on numerous occasions when I’ve left my reusable shopping bags in my car, checkers have gone ahead and given me the brown bags at no charge, saying “well catch you next time”. Why is it nowadays the PC police are so quick to accuse? And to call someone a LIAR goes a wee bit too far, in my humble opinion. In addition stores are not going to admit to an increase in shoplifting, but it has occurred, a relative of mine works for Raleys and has seen it!
How many grocery bags in one of those 55 gallon bags stuffed full of pine needles that you see everywhere. Just extra profit for the corps.
I think who ever wrote this article is completely unprofessional. The council woman can sue for slander. Calling someone a liar, regardless of their actions, is petty and unprofessional.
Works for me. I keep reusable bags in the car.
“Plastic bags came to being because environmentalists demanded them to “save the trees”. This was about 25 years ago. The liberal environmental whackjobs, you know, the same people who tell you about the Global Warming fairy tale every day but fly on the airlines to the far reaches of the world regularly, demanded that grocers stop using paper bags as it was killing the forests.”
Why is EVERYTHING a liberal Conspiracy to you Gasspen?
I’m guessing it had more to do with plastic bags being cheaper to produce and weighing less per unit so they cost less to ship, therefore being more cost-effective compared to paper bags.
There’s a saying ‘you can’t legislate morality, but you can legislate behavior’…bringing your own bags is the right thing to do.
I have had the same experience as Judy. At both Raley’s and Safeway I’m only charged for paper bags about 50% of the time. The designated corporate spokesperson is probably not going to disclose this to a reporter, but, the practice seems to be to take care of the customer and not force the issue of making them pay for bags.
Calling the Councilwomen a “liar” in the context of this story, especially when relying more than just the corporate PR department as a source would have shown the difference between practice and policy, shows some sort of editorial bias against Ms. Conner that is more appropriate in a blog post than a news story.
Works for me. I now do my shopping when I’m off the hill. The prices are better too. Just takes a little more planning.
“lying” Seriousyly? Is this supposed to be a journalism site or a high school blog?
“Liar”? Really? Pretty bold statement! While I am sure that all of the stores claim a policy of charging for bags, as dictated by the law, I have personal experience of that policy being waived or ignored entirely at both Safeway and Raley’s.
Grow up and show a little unbiased respect.
I have always reused the plastic bags and still do but I’ve had cloth and other types of reusable bags for years. They both work for me. Since the ban on plastic came into being, I always try to remember to bring my cloth or nylon bags.
Calling Ms. Conner a liar was uncool but everyone is entiteled to their opinion, it’s just a shame that such a minor topic reduces some to name calling. I hope you two can mend fences and we can move on to more important things. Take care and hugs all around. OLS
Like I said, a bunch of whiners…they wouldnt do the right thing if they had a choice…thus there must be consequences for being ignorant and foolish…
I never understood the arguments in favor of this ban. The ones I read about were:
1. The bags contributed to the plastic garbage area in the middle of the Pacific ocean. Huh? It is hard to imagine a pathway from Tahoe to the Pacific.
2. They are worse for the environment than paper or the reusable plastic alternative. No studies were ever cited to support paper over plastic. The reusable woven polyethylene plastic bags are manufactured in China and some contain lead in the graphics. They are reported to wear our after fifteen or so uses. It is not at all clear that it is better for the environment to manufacture these bags in China and transport them here compared to locally manufactured bags.
3. They contribute to litter. That is certainly true in some areas. I have seen them along along the highway near Bakersfield but never here. Perhaps it is a problem here but I have seem no studies proving that.
I think that the ban is just a reflexive hatred of plastic and not grounded in reality.
Every bag that I have had was recycled for a different purpose and if I run out I will have to buy replacement bags. In the meantime it is another reason to shop in Nevada and bring the bags home.
go figure:
PERFECTLY STATED!
SC Tahoe says:
“Grow up and show a little unbiased respect.”
After listening to JoAnn Conner address people on numerous occasions in very malevolent manners I would extend that same advice to her. What’s that old saying: “You’ve got to give respect to get it.”
OK, 25 years ago we said “Save the trees-use plastic bags”. Now we say “Save the environment-use paper bags”. I manage to find uses for those plastic bags. I use them as boot liners in the winter. Keeps your feet toasty and dry. I also have plans to make crocheted reusable bags out of the old flimsy plastic bags. Using them to pick up dog waste only puts them back into the landfill.
No matter what , you will never make everyone happy.
And, I agree, calling JoAnn Conner a liar was a bit over the top. Perhaps she was misinformed but using such a strong term was just a bit much.
My dog thinks she owns my pick-up. I throw away all my reusable bags in a couple of days because they get dog hair in them.
PS
I think it’s funny when people whine about other people whining.
I find it interesting people care more about the use of the word liar than the fact a councilmember lies. What’s up with that?
JoAnn lies more when the camera is off, which would have been the case for this poorly attended meeting.
GO LTN! Tell the truth. Many of use want to hear it.
My problem with reusable bags is that people don’t wash them. They put them on the check out conveyor belt and fill them where my food goes next. They look disgusting!
Just to be clear, that “Hmm” is not this “Hmmm…”
What a bunch of whiners! What oh what did people do before 1965 when the plastic bag was invented? (Prior to the Environmental movement bty) Both my Grandmothers used sacks! Sacks that are very similar to the re-usable shopping sacks I see now. 107 towns up and down California are getting rid of plastic bags; I say good riddance.
Buck, Yeah, I’m guilty of the dirty reusable bag. Many years ago, Lisa, the checker at Lucky’s, mentioned to me about another customer with dirty cloth bags. Well, her not so subtle hint hit home and as soon as I got home from the store, in the wash they went, but they came out of the dryer about half their original size!
Now Lisa is one of the sweetest gals you’re ever gonna meet, and she meant well, I was just too damn dumb to think these things might shrink.
I recently got two more reusable bags at the Home and Garden Show, one from Tahoe Keys Resorts and the other from The Humane Society. So wash your sack and AIR DRY it! Take care of your sack and it will last a lifetime.
OLS
Just think of the advertising possibilities! I have been taking Lira’s bags to Safeway for several months. I also have bags from Charter, El Dorado Savings Bank and Safeway. If more local companies would make up reusable bags with their logos on them I am sure they would get great usage.
The lack of attendance just goes to show that we’re aware of how little our voice matters. There was widespread opposition to the ban in the first place, and I can assure you it’s still there. I now do a significant portion of my shopping off the hill just to restock my bag supply. I’ll reuse cereal bags etc. as trash bags, but sometimes that just isn’t enough. And with four kids and two dogs, I can’t even begin to explain the other uses we’ve found (those poop bags are not in nearly enough places). I think we’re all just waiting for the elections and some new council members who actually care about public opinion.
What is sad about this issue is that the people that are against moving past our dependance on more plastic c r a p is that what they want are free bags to put their dogs c r a p in. Go figure…use bread bags, cereal bags, produce bags. Its not like there is a shortage. If this is what the sentiment is, there really is very little hope for humankind, good riddance…
“The lack of attendance just goes to show that we’re aware of how little our voice matters.”?????
The lack of attendance just goes to show that there are a lot of people in this town who don’t bother to be informed about when meetings take place, about what takes place in those meetings, or to bother showing up or emailing their opinions in advance of the meetings. The preference for many is to criticize after the fact when an article gets published on a subject.
So, unless the article has been edited, the first use of “liar” was apparently Judy – in quotes, no less. I first read the article this morning and again now (4:00 p.m.) – no use of “liar” nor any variants or synonyms.
“…made the false comment…” is well short of an accusation of lying – it could be a result of ignorance as Ms. Reed implies.
And L h says Ms. Conner has a slander case. A couple of points. The more pedantic being that slander is the verbal form of defamation. If Ms. Reed had said in public that Ms. Conner did some despicable act, that could be slanderous. Writing it could be libelous.
Second, Ms. Conner is a public official. It is pretty hard to defame a public official. The Supreme Court has said that “…debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open.” (NY Times vs Sullivan, 1964).
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-made-simple-29718.html
I’ll survive, and I appreciate Raley’s putting up signs to remind you to bring in your own bag. But in these million responses, and the original article, I haven’t heard one case made for what good this plastic bag ban does. What’s the point, other than some theoretical feel good solution to some unknown theoretical problem? What is it, some global environmental issue? Always cracks me up when little SLT thinks it can save the world by restricting CO2 emissions, or plastic bags, all by itself.
baddog the articled does say that she was lying, when your say someone is lying you are calling them a liar
@reloman, thanks for getting me to reread the article. You are correct – Ms. Reed did say “lying”. I relied too much on the repeated phrase, “Liar”.
I think that was a bad choice of words but not defamatory when a public official is involved.
And, by definition not slanderous.
@DougM- here’s the thing… Every country, state, county, city, town, neighborhood, family, person has to do their part, and not obsess over who is doing more, or less. We are not the only city changing how we do things. Those things will balance out. It is the only way to effect a paradigm shift.
“You can blow out a candle, but you can’t blow out a fire; once the flames begin to catch, the wind will blow it higher”–peter gabriel(Biko)
“there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come”-victor hugo
DougM. Been doing the beach cleanup for years. Used to be that you did not have to bring your own bags to collect the trash; just find plastic bags stuck in the bushes and fill ’em then dump ’em. There are fewer plastic bags in the wilds of Lake Tahoe and that is a good thing. Now, if we only get our beer and soda in recycled bottles again.