Calif. teacher tenure laws ruled unconstitutional
By Jennifer Medina, New York Times
LOS ANGELES — A Los Angeles Superior Court judge ruled Tuesday that teacher tenure laws deprive students of their constitutional right to an education, a decision that hands teachers’ unions a major defeat in a landmark case that overturns several California laws that govern the way teachers are hired and fired.
“Substantial evidence presented makes it clear to this court that the challenged statutes disproportionately affect poor and/or minority students,” Judge Rolf M. Treu wrote in the ruling. “The evidence is compelling. Indeed, it shocks the conscience.”
The ruling, which declared the laws governing how teachers are hired and fired in California to be unconstitutional, is likely to set off a slew of legal fights here and in other states, where many education reform advocates are eager to change similar laws. The ruling brings a close to the first chapter of the case, Vergara v. California, but both sides have made it clear that they plan to appeal any decision that goes against them to the State Supreme Court.
The plaintiffs argued that California’s current laws made it impossible to get rid of low-performing and incompetent teachers, who were disproportionately assigned to schools filled with poor students. The result, they insisted, amounted to a violation of students’ constitutional rights to an education.
But lawyers for the states and teachers’ unions said that overturning such laws would erode necessary protections that stop school administrators from making unfair personnel decisions. They also argued that the vast majority of teachers in the state’s schools are competent and providing students with all the necessary tools to learn. More important factors than teachers, they argued, are social and economic inequalities as well as the funding levels of public schools.
Good. What other job exists that you can’t be fired from just because you’ve been there for 10 years, regardless of your work performance?? What an absurd system.
Tenure is not a bad thing. It is complicated, so obviously beyond any discussion that happens here. There are pros and cons. Not all tenured teachers are bad. I think this issue is completely over-hyped.
Obviously way over the heads of the average person??? The good teachers will not be affected, it’s the bad ones that will. Is that too difficult to understand? Nobody should have any guarantee of employment unless they are reviewed and found competent. There are many fantastic educators none of which should have concern.
Dog. Easy, overpaid CEO’s.
caso yes most tenured teacher do their jobs very well, about 5 years ago there was a series of articles i believe in the la times about how difficult it is to fire teachers who were so bad that if they were not tenured they would have been fired. Some of them committed crimes that should have gotten them fired, but the districts were affraid of being sued, its not that they were affraid they would lose a lawsuit but rather the huge amount that it would cost to defend. Major problem with tenure is that many public school districts dont have the funding to properly evaluate teaches before giving tenure. Other issue is that some teaches (happily none alot) after many years of teaching start to call in their teaching, which short changes the quality of education of students.
Rock, Board of Directors fire CEO’s all the time. Not guaranteed employment in any way. Not even, evil capitalists have tenure. Lol…..dictators could be considered tenured even communists have tenure.
Once again many fantastic educators, but bad ones should not be above reproach.
Let’s put this all into perspective.
Take a guess at the percentage of problem tenured teachers.
Next we will discuss significance and the concept of ‘the exception defining the rule’.
Instead of using potentially skewed numbers from two dissenting groups. How about a comparative of a non union district and a union district within the State of California. Both can be compared based upon high, middle and low income students within those districts. The non union has both higher test scores and higher acceptance rates to 4 year institutions than the unionized school district, of course comparatively within the demographic. How many non union districts exist within the State of California?
The whole concept of public employees being unionized is ridiculous.
Caso the persentage based uponnumbers the district and unions are reporting, but if you look at the test score numbers you may be surprised at how many truely bad teachers there are. Though bad teachers are not the only reason for low scores, there are a ton of different reasons for this, but it could very well be a contributing factor. but I am wondering if you are ok with even 100 kids getting poor education because a school can fire a known poor teacher. There was one case that a district fired a tenured teacher for cause and it costs millions to defend.
couldn’t agree more, dan stroehler!
Exactly Dan! To take some of our tax dollars, so Public Employees can engage in an effort to get more & more of our tax dollars…?!
No wonder govt. units always claim to be broke! Plus of course the point of the story, how the Public Employee Unions fight accountability to our tax dollars.
And do you ever know of an instance where a Public Service Employee is willing to speak out against his/her Union? (Cause they know what’ll happen if they dare!)
Joby. Today’s American CEO’s make 10 Times the amount CEO’s made in the 1960’s and 1970’s. CEO’s in Europe and Asia make a fraction of American CEO’s today. There are dozens of references, articles and books regarding overpaid CEO’s via internet search engines. Contrary to your comment, capitalism does indeed have tenure and golden parachutes as well.
Joby, I believe there is only one “non-union” school district in California. Also California is a closed shop state meaning teachers have no choice but to belong to the union (except for religious reasons). Many states such as Colorado have open shops where teachers have the choice regarding union membership.
Wrong, R4T. “Capitalism” does not have tenure. What we have in the USA for the most part isn’t pure capitalism. And all those CEOs that you whine make too much money can easily be fired if they do not perform. Unlike a tenured 5th grade teacher.
Parker. The public worker bashing is a bit much for me. Ok, you don’t like more and more public money handed out. Good. Let’s look at another example of public money handed out. GM, a partly owned Federal Company, gets tax dollars. All Americans become part owners of GM. They engineer and install faulty ignition switches. People are killed by the faulty ignition switches. They settle with the families of victims out of court. Ends up costing company/owners aka Tax Payers, of GM money. And where is the accountability on GM’s part? Did the GM engineers speak out before people started getting killed? This is why we have laws and regulations of both the Public and Private sector.
Dog. You are the one whining, I am point out fact. Fact: Lloyd Blankenfein of Goldman Sachs collected $16.2 million dollars for a company thats stock performance dropped 45% and company profits fell 67%. Oh, and Goldman Sachs got $10 Billion of Tax Payer money during the “financial crisis” of 2008.
Another example of CEO greed without accountability? Ok. Martin Barrington of Altria Group aka Phillip Morris for peddling cigarettes to the public for profit… That story includes selling death and having the taxpayers foot the bill for the sales and still ends with a $17.4 million salary for the Phillip Morris/Altria CEO. Are you going to fire Martin? Oh, that’s right, you rant but never answer any questions.
At least I can visit my 5th Grade teacher to voice my concerns in the classroom. Good luck doing the same with overpaid CEOs.
Rock,
Tell me when I’ve said anything inaccurate? Bashing? It’s the truth!
But you’re right about GM! I wasn’t for bailing them out.
Mr. Kurtzman you are correct. The district performs very well, and above the state in most categories. I’m not here to bash teachers in any way. My point is that nobody should be guaranteed a job without some sort of oversight and review. I’m not sure test scores are the best barometer of success, but as with any job assessment can be based on multiple criteria.
Rock, your corporate/capitalist hatred shouldn’t overwhelm reality. CEO’s are paid a great deal of money. All have oversight from their BOD’s and stockholders. Usually profit dictates their success or demise. Phillip Morris sells cigarettes. People don’t have to buy them, it’s a choice. In most cases you have no choice where you go to school. My kids go to LTUSD as did I. 95% of the teachers are fantastic. I personally don’t agree with tenure and it seems the court didn’t either. We will see how it plays out as the unions are well funded and I’m sure will appeal. Personally I’d rather see that money spent on litigation go into the pockets of the good teachers and the schools. Government funding corporations in any way is ridiculous wether it’s GM or Goldman Sachs.
I cannot understand the purpose of bashing high paid executives (in this case CEOs) that run private corporations. The key word here is PRIVATE. That’s their business, not ours or yours.
‘Caso the persentage based uponnumbers the district and unions are reporting, but if you look at the test score numbers you may be surprised at how many truely bad teachers there are. ‘
Ok, so you don’t want to be quantitative about this at all. What percentage is being reported? How significant is that number.
‘but I am wondering if you are ok with even 100 kids getting poor education because a school can fire a known poor teacher.’
So now you want to be quantitative, buy only in some unreasonable hypothetical scenario.
100/6,000,000 = .001%
So, yes.
So how about those numbers I asked about earlier.
‘There was one case that a district fired a tenured teacher for cause and it costs millions to defend.’
Keyword: ONE case. Sure that is crazy, it is also an exception. In my world exceptions don’t define rules.
Apparently you think I am really dumb and unreasonable.
Rock, CEOs dont teach our kids, this goes down to the personnal family level. I am sure you are not ok with your children getting really horible education because a teacher is sliding and doing very little to educate(though a super majority do excellent jobs) and the district cant fire the teacher because ghey are tenured. If you dont do your job to your emlpoyers satisfaction wont you be fired?
Also Rock the goverment no longer ownes any shares in GM.
Caso the multi million dollar is one case of many, many lawsuits it was an example. The real point is that really bad teachers cant be fired, so yes you are unreasonable if you think that those really horible teachers cant be fired many with crimes that would not allow them to be hired in the first place. For you to say that there are only 100 bad teachers out of 6 million, i would love for you to supply your source on that 100. No one knows how many unqualified teachers there are as most very large districts dont have the resources to evalute them properly due to budget cuts. But i dont believe i will argue this point with someone who has a very closed mind on this subject.
‘Caso the multi million dollar is one case of many, many lawsuits it was an example.’
You used the word ONE. My bad for not understanding you meant dozens.
‘if you think that those really horible teachers cant be fired many with crimes that would not allow them to be hired in the first place. ‘
I am *not* and unreasonable person. Would you prefer me to be so?
‘For you to say that there are only 100 bad teachers out of 6 million, i would love for you to supply your source on that 100.’
Shoot me, in the kneecap.
I was going along with the subject of this article, which is the entire state. Being consistent, as any reasonable person should.
(from earlier, your question, to me)
‘but I am wondering if you are ok with even 100 kids getting poor education’
Just shoot me. Please.
‘ But i dont believe i will argue this point with someone who has a very closed mind on this subject.’
Argue what point? You are all over the place, discrediting quantification, then trying to bring it up again, then forgetting what you asked me directly.
Originally I was making the case that we should examine the ‘problem’ of tenure, first by stating that not every instance of tenure is bad (reasonable), and second by looking at its significance quantitatively.
Point the finger at yourself.
So what percentage of tenured teachers are part of the problem?
Parker. You wrote in short version, “Exactly Dan! – take our tax dollars, so Public Employees get more & more of our tax dollars – govt. units always claim to be broke – Public Employee Unions fight accountability to our tax dollars – when was a Public Service Employee willing to speak out against his/her Union.” I call that bashing.
I could go on about Toyota, ENRON, BP, Exxon, Halliburton but the list of greedy corporations sucking at the breast of Government is just to long.
Joby. Did I say “hate” anywhere? NO. I am simply pointing out the folly of chasing peanuts when the Fat Finger Whales are out their.
The story is about getting rid of low performing teachers in California. Ok. I bring up low performing Corporations and by the way, some are deadly to their customers and you try to make light of it and call it “choice?”
Cigarette Companies knew for a fact that their products killed human beings as early as the 1920’s but covered up the research for decades. YET, we still subsidize the death and carnage via bills passed in Congress last year.
But hey, keep trying to bust the Unions Workers because as you said “nobody should have any guarantee of employment.” Well, except good ‘ol CEOs that get direct subsidies by the Government; including Tobacco Company CEOs.
Hey Dan. How “private” was BP when the drilling rig blew up, burned, killed the workers and spilled tons of crude into the Gulf of Mexico? Where were the fleets of BP ships to come and stop the mess from spreading? Stop the fire? Um, BP called that pesky little Government Program called The US Coast Guard.
Why did that other pesky Government program, The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, have to point out the problems with Toyota’s throttle cables, GM’s ignition switches? I mean, don’t “private” companies have engineers, CEOs, sales and marketing folks to take care of their problems?
Oh, but as you said, “that’s their business, not ours or yours.”
Relo. And really horrible CEOs can’t be fired by me too. Sorry to say, but a lot of today’s Teachers are babysitters for some really bad parents. I think teaching starts at home but unfortunately some of these homes neglect even the basics of reading and writing to young kids. YET, these same parents expect the Teacher to tutor their kids. Teaching is not a business, it is a co-operative between Teacher and Student.
And by the way, we all owned GM stock while they were building cars with faulty ignition switches.
That makes a lot of sense Rock? Because you have a problem with some corporations, Public Employees should be able to do what they want?
Because I see people getting away with bad things does that mean it’s okay for me to: get paid under the table, make up expenses, and in other ways cheat on my cheat on my taxes? Good to know!
rock, you are right about teachers assuming the role of ‘baby sitter’ for some really bad parents. let’s get real: human over population trumps all other global problems.
Parker. Of course I did NOT say “Public Employees should be able to do what they want.” I would say that most Public Employees do a good job and Teachers in particular are doing the best they can under the difficult circumstances. What I do not go along with is the “bashing” of small fish while loosing sight of the Massive Theft of Tax Payer money done legally via Lawyers, Guns and Money. It only perpetuates the “haves” versus “haves not” mentality that slowly creeps into society.
My final example of this hypocrisy: If I were to build a automobile with a faulty ignition switch or throttle cable and sell it to somebody that was later killed by said flaw, I along with all my assets would be exposed to the justice system. Who exactly has faced charges or may go to prison over the deaths from Toyota or GM? My guess is no one since Toyota settled for $1.2 Billion.
Rock,So we should not worry about the small amount of teachers that really under perform, let them teach(or not teach which is the case) say 2500 children or more over their career if they are a middle or high school teacher. Its OK if millions of people who did not get the education they could of because the teachers that could not be fired.(that’s just using 500 bad teachers with a career of 25 years) I don’t see how loosing the ability to fire these teachers will bust the unions. Very few union jobs have these types of job security.
Are you a teacher or related to one?
Yes Corporations do many things they shouldn’t. Yes Toyota got fined 1.2 billion dollars, since you are comparing corps to teachers are you suggesting that when teachers do bad things we should be able to sue them also? Also since you mentioned Enron, I maybe wrong but I do believe some of them did go to jail. There are thousands of examples of corp execs going to jail for things they did.
Parents not being involved in their children’s schooling is nothing new its been going on since the late 60s, I believe that is when the term latch key child started.
‘education they could of’
Oh the irony.
OK rock, it is my turn to guess what you think, and then criticize you.
Rock, are you saying that is ok for shellfish to be allowed spend so much time on the bottom of the ocean, when all of the other fish have to move around? Typical liberal, supporting lazy sea life.
Rock,
Your observations & comments are applicable on a story about the automobile industry. This is a story about Teacher Tenure. So on the topic of Teacher Tenure, it is a good thing the teachers cannot keep their job for the simple fact they’ve had that job for a long time. There are just too many protections like that for the taxpayer funded, I’ll say it again, the ‘taxpayer funded’ bureaucracy!
Most teachers, and most others in govt., are capable and care. There should be more of an effort to root out those who don’t.
When LTN writes a story about GM or Toyota or the auto industry, I look forward to everyone’s comments! But is overturning the Teacher Tenure system a good thing? I firmly believe it is!
Relo. I am saying that education is a two way street. What about under performing Parents, how do we fire them? What about disruptive students that play musical chairs between schools? I am not sure it is a good idea to trade a rookie teacher for a veteran teacher.
My family relations are private.
Teachers doing “bad things” as in “bad teaching things?” Not sure what your angle is.
The term “latchkey” was coined in 1944. American Women leaving the home and getting jobs passed the 50% mark in the early 1980’s.
Parker. This News Outlet has not run an article on GM or Toyota recently. This is news.
I would say that the ‘taxpayer funded bureaucracy’ is alive and well in the Financial, Military, Utility, Fossil Fuel, Agribusiness, Communication and Industrial sectors too but on a much larger scale.
Years ago when it came time for me to sign my “TENURE” contract I went to the School Board and said that if they would delete the tenure paragraph I would sign it. Even tho I was a teacher I had always said that law was worst law ever passed. Board took my request to the LEGAL BEAGLES and it was ruled I WAS TO SIGN CONTRACT AS IT WAS OR LEAVE. Having small children to feed, I signed it. Was I punished NO I was promoted several times before I moved on.