THIS IS AN ARCHIVE OF LAKE TAHOE NEWS, WHICH WAS OPERATIONAL FROM 2009-2018. IT IS FREELY AVAILABLE FOR RESEARCH. THE WEBSITE IS NO LONGER UPDATED WITH NEW ARTICLES.
While state firefighters have battled the epic King Fire west of Lake Tahoe, their union has been struggling with a political question: What can they expect financially in the future from Gov. Jerry Brown?
CalFire is in the midst of voting on an agreement with Brown to amend the union’s current contract. The deal gives most members a 4 percent raise Jan. 1. Meanwhile, some of the lowest-paid firefighters are receiving a 12.5 percent salary hike.
The smaller increase is in line with Brown’s policy that no union would get an across-the-board pay raise larger than the one he negotiated last year with the mammoth SEIU Local 1000. The larger percentage raise was prompted by – get this – the latest increase in California’s minimum wage.
Employees in the Firefighter I classification earned as little as $8 per hour, a dollar less than the state minimum wage that went into effect July 1. The 12.5 percent increase fixes that for now, and the contract amendment under consideration grants another 12.5 percent raise next year, ahead of the state’s hourly minimum going to $10 in 2016. Some fast-food workers earn more.
Sure. It’s just tax dollars. Apparently, judging by the comments, we taxpayers are an unlimited resource.
Take all you want.
reloman says - Posted: October 3, 2014
So Dog you are OK with people risking their lives for less than min. Wage? Am I reading your comment correctly or did you just not think who these people are, There has not been a raise in min wage in quite some time and what a good many of them mean to us when we have a fire like we just had.
pine tree says - Posted: October 3, 2014
I am not okay with people risking their lives for less then miminam wage.
I am not okay with Brown’s form of the cal Fire taxation without representation either.
California is a giant mess. Can Brown’s term be over already?
Dogula says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Pine Tree, he’s about to get re-elected for another term. We all lose.
A job is worth what one person is willing to pay, and another is willing to do it for. The market can work that out much better than politicians can. Is there a lack of fire fighters willing to do the job?
Before everybody jumps all over me (again) let me say I greatly appreciate the job they do. But this system of sucking taxpayers dry for any and everything that anybody thinks is a good cause, has got to stop. You’re going to run out of other people’s money soon. Very soon.
Hmmm... says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Thanks for explaining capitalism for us, Dog. If you don’t value people, you won’t value their labor, or the fruits of it. Some people LOVE firefighters only when it’s THEIR house or local forests or community that’s endangered. It’s not just that you get what you pay for…you also pay for what you get. Screech on….
Dogula says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Hmmmm, you are welcome.
ljames says - Posted: October 4, 2014
“this system of sucking taxpayers dry for any and everything that anybody thinks is a good cause, has got to stop”
I agree with “hmmmmmm” – the positive aspects of it aside, we always need to be reminded of the moral weakness of unrestrained capitalism, and Dougla sure helped us with that one. What ever happen to the moral philosophy of willingly paying for value? Dougla’s argument could be used to justify child labor or 16 hour, 6 day a week work days, and is still used to justify the outrageous working conditions and compensation for many factory workers in third world countries. One could even stretch it to justify slavery – “hey, if they don’t want to be slaves, they can just kill themselves.”
Aspen country says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Pine Tree: I agree, can’t Moonbutts term be over. But alas all the sheep will re-elect this senile old tax hungry goat! Just wait, in January his hidden gas tax will rebound and then some from the lower prices today.
Dogula says - Posted: October 4, 2014
ljames, if one wants to stretch an idea to absurdity, you can posit any number of stupid ideas.
But you don’t need to stretch your socialistic “ideals” very far to achieve mayhem and murder. Your desired system has murdered millions of people over the past hundred years. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and numberous other socialistic leaders of banana republics have all murdered their own citizens in the name of reeducation toward the people’s utopia.
I’ll take the free market any day of the week.
ljames says - Posted: October 4, 2014
you are just helping prove my point – it isnt all black and white, it isnt about a knee jerk reaction which “this system of sucking taxpayers dry for any and everything that anybody thinks is a good cause, has got to stop” certainly is.
Moreover, when one uses an argument where from a logical analogy, one can justify what you refer to as an “absurdity” (and why 16 hour work days and child labor is an absurdity to you is really interesting to say the least) than that argument doesn’t really further you cause. If you dont buy into the logical extension of your own argument, then I would venture to say you should look for a different argument for your position. But hey, I ain’t going to change any minds here either. That is why at some point you stop talking and just make your voice heard through the ballot box.
rock4tahoe says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Pine. California is NOT in a “giant mess” and your comment is about 5 years old. We left the giant mess, Arnold, behind and elected someone that actually knows how to Govern.
It is not going to hurt anyone to pay Firefighters more than minimum wage.
Dogula says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Arnold had a similar, predominantly Democrat legislature to deal with. They’re the ones who make the laws, the governor just signs or vetoes, for the most part. They can over-ride him, if they really want to. And now we’ve got a super-majority of Democrats that can and do pass anything they want. occasionally Brown vetoes something, but not too often.
Everything that California is, currently, is totally on the heads of the left.
Level says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Dogula, California is in the best shape it has been in since the nineties.
Thank you Governor Brown and the Democrats in the California State Legislature!
So, all you people….what do you think of measure H which is proposed to raise your lake Valley Fire District’s tax by 600 percent AND insert an annual 3 percent CPI inflation? By the way the CPI is based for some reason on San Francisco, one of the most expensive places in the country to live.
Does management need to be changed out at Lake Valley?
I have no idea how many times I see 3 trucks with lights and sirens head full throttle up Luther pass, only to come quietly back in 20 minutes or so.
Why do they roll so much equipment for what is obviously a minor or even no issue?
Are we getting “services” we don’t need and now we are going to be paying 6 times more for it?
Oh yeah Dog…this is not a partisan issue….it is just because they can. Any agency thinks it needs to be bigger because isn’t it the most important?
Dogula says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Hmmm, you’re right. We do not have anything close to a free market in this country. So all of you who keep blaming it for our troubles, you can stop. It did NOT cause the problems we have. We ought to give it a try and see if it makes things better. Couldn’t get much worse.
And Kevin, Ayn Rand’s philosophy was her own. It is not mine, nor is it most libertarians’. She was rather simplistic, and very prickly. Believe it or not, most libertarians are nice people. We just want to be left alone.
Rick says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Dog, you need to avail yourself of some serious reading on economics. You are more likely to find a unicorn before you will ever find a true free market society – and there are numerous reasons for that. The fact that people have been shown to make irrational decisions related to purchasing goods and services is one, but a bigger issue is that Corporations hate competition and do everything to kill it – can you say monopoly. For example, nearly 75% of food (markets) are controlled by a small number of Corporations alone in the US. So monopolies are in fact the antithesis of a free market system, but are in fact the natural outcome. You could maybe rely on government to control corporations to minimize the influence of monopolies on the system you claim you want and would be perfect, but that would violate your major founding principle of no government involvement in economics.
Other important considerations why a truly free market system (i.e., no government intervention as you suggest) is a bad idea. Clean air, water, sustainability of resources, etc. Because of government, and against the will of Corporations, our air and water today is far better then it was in the 1960’s. Go to Mexico City or Beijing if you want fewer regulations and more lung disease. Auto safety is far better than the auto industry was willing to do. Over 20,000 people die in similar size earthquakes in Pakistan vs California due to serious building regulations – free market has no conscience and is unwilling to spend the money for the social good. Can you say Adidias hiring kids at poverty wages. We benefit as a society when Corporations are forced pay a living wage. According to an article in Forbes (you know that liberal bastion) Walmart cost Tax Payers $6.2 billion a year because there low wages force many of their workers to seek assistance. If Walmart paid more, it would cost us less, the Walton Family would still be one of the richest families on the planet, and their workers would have more income to spend on good and services, driving the economy.
I adhere to the principles of Teddy Roosevelt – capitalism with government oversight. Something mind you that put him at great odds with the robber barons (Carnegie’s, Mellon’s, Rockefeller, etc.) in his own Republican Party.
Rick
go figure says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Well I think all the people out there that are against being a part of a system where everyone contributes to the services they get should get their way. But those that dont want to pay for those services have some kind of electronic chip or scarlet letter on their house so when the big fire comes roaring down the mountain side the minimum wage part time untrained firefighters can scan your code and then drive on by to go p.rotect the house and lives of your neighbors. Of course you wont be able to drive away because you didnt pay for the roads or their maintenance and your car wont start cuz that chip thing, again. And, of course, you wouldnt think of having insurance because you were told to so after your house burns down and you find youeself homeless and hungry, well dont be looking for any handouts because you chose to not vote for these services to be available to folks in your circumstances and you are against entitlements, called charity to some. So if this is the way that dogzilla and aspen country, and cj of course want it I say good, let the hard working firefighters and police and worker bees help others that appreciate their efforts and willingness to possibly loose their lives over it. Texas is waiting for you all……
Hmmm... says - Posted: October 4, 2014
“You didn’t build that!” Bwahahaha!!
It’s not a free market that has created our country’s problems, it is those who deify the term while licking the boots of their corporate masters(Dog-here is where you get up and go look in the mirror) on one hand and then use the government to limit ‘freedom’. Regarding your protests of ‘innocence’ respective of Liberturdarianism, Ayn Rand’s ‘simplicity’ and ‘prickliness'(of course YOU are NOTHING like THAT….oops-my Booscheet-meter just broke. I’ll have to pay more than minimum wage to get it fixed). AND, I will have to agree(gulp-god please NO!!!) with your buddy CJ…it can get much worse. I’m thinking if the Re’thug’licans take control of Congress we’ll be having food riots. I guess the term laissez faire economics means nothing to you. Or everything.
ljames says - Posted: October 4, 2014
egads – guess all the right buttons all got pushed… BTW, good rational comments by “Rick Says” – he must have got on this thread by accident! :)
Dogula says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Rick, maybe YOU should read some economics. Corporations can only become monopolistic with the aid of government regulation. In a TRUE free market, there would always be a smaller, more nimble entrepreneur to undercut price and quality. But government protectionism is used very well by your corporate entities.
BASIC ECONOMICS.
I’ve never said there should be NO law, either. The rule of law is essential in a free market economy. But under the current administration in DC, we’ve got a banana republic, where rule of law means nothing, and regulation is by the whim of the regime.
Lawless. And no, it ain’t working.
cosa pescado says - Posted: October 4, 2014
The corporations buy their way into the control and abuse the government. As a supporter of corporate ability to buy more control after the citizens united decision you should know this.
reloman says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Good comments Rick, though if you dont think that corporations like wal mart wont pass on the added cost of higher wages to the consumer you maybe alittle naive. And they will be able to because their compitors will be doing the same thing. This will give us a unintended consequence of hyper inflation(possibly) which will cut into buying power of everyone. Unless there is somehow an increase in productivity to offset the higher labor costs(read employees losing their jobs)
This series of post is quite funny with the altra teabaggers and the ultra libturds fighting each other. On saying less goverment controls and the other saying that corporations control the goverment. Soo many conspiracy therorist here. The truth is probably some where in the middle about who controls the goverment, sometimes there are laws passed that favor corps sometimes laws are pssed that hurts them. I doubt many of the therorist here on either side will agree with me though.
baphomet says - Posted: October 4, 2014
why should fire fighters get special wage consideration, given that like those who work for the military, they do so by choice. this is blatant exploitation of the social climate generated by recent fires, fires that continue provide employment for those who choose fire fighting as a career.
Concerned citizen says - Posted: October 4, 2014
baphomet…where are you coming from with your comment. These are the people who serve your community and provide for your safety. I hope you don’t have a heart attack tonight, knucklehead.
fireman says - Posted: October 4, 2014
The difference is that the military takes care of all your life. They are giving you a place to live 24-7-365 they feed you 24-7-365. Most of these firefighters are only living in the stations when on duty and have to have other arrangements for living when not working. I find it funny that everyone is all for the raising of minimum wage but since these are government workers who choose to do this its different. I know that I would not risk my life doing this work for that kind of wage.
Hmmm... says - Posted: October 4, 2014
I fear our future in the Industrialized nations will wind up looking like a mix between “Blade runner”, “Running Man”, “Johnny Pneumonic” and “Brave New World”. Ok, maybe a smattering of “1984”, though Dogula and I would differ greatly over which current politico represents ‘Big Brother’. I don’t necessarily see it as a result of ‘grand conspiracies’ so much as a consequence of the ultra rich hanging out the ultra rich….living in similar neighborhoods, going to the same vacation spots and colleges, kids becoming friends and enemies and spouses, business partners etc.. Of course they discuss business and politics. We do have an undeniable revolving door between lobbyists, politicians and corporations. Conspiracy theories or no-some dots connect themselves without any help from us.
Hmmm... says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Correction…he was a 28 year employee, never made it to CEO.
baphomet says - Posted: October 4, 2014
hey concerned citizen…you, the true knucklehead, simply do not get it: there is no draft. it is the choice of the fire person or military person to do the job they are doing. if they feel it’s too risky for the pay, they are free to choose another line of work.
Rick says - Posted: October 4, 2014
Dog, you need to not only read economics, but history. The robber barons of the 20’s (the closest thing to the free market) had little in the way of regulations and created huge monopolies. Estimates place Rockefeller s wealth in today’s dollars as several times Bill Gates.
Your version of the free-market or how it operates is fantasy and as has already been shown by history, not possible. People (and greed) get in the way of your ideology. Your notion of economics is not supported by any real economists (conservative and liberal economist alike all agree the notion of a purely free-market system is a theoretical construct that can never operate in the real world), but I should not be surprised as your notions about science aren’t not supported by scientists. Dog, you also failed to mention the inability of the free market to deal with serious social issues like clean air and water, building codes for earthquake safety – and if you say well ok gov here is ok, then you have lost your utopian free market. Keep in mind, in the history of the world there is not such thing as a truly free-market economy. The U.S. probably came closest in the 1920s – monopolies are the natural outcome as wealth becomes accumulated in the hands of a few, they drive out competition – a very natural human reaction. As I said, humans ruin your ideology.
Reloman, there are conflicting studies on the effects of minimum wage, so much so, that there is little evidence past efforts have had much in the way of deleterious affects. In fact, these past efforts have resulted in minimal negative effects on cost of goods or job loss (the claim of the Chamber).
So in as much as low-wage workers have actually seen their pay decrease (not keeping up with inflation), I see no evidence that increasing the minimum wage has any real negative effects. Places like Peet’s Starbucks, In-n-Out Burger are doing just fine paying over $10/hr.
Rick, i have no problem with the current min wage going up to $10 as you have said it has not keep pace with inflation, as a matter of i believe it should be index to inflation. fyi Starbucks starts people at min wage, i have a nephew who is a sift superviser, when they uped the min. wage in july he got a bump also.
However i do believe you were speaking about the living wage, which i have heard a number of $15 per hour. most retail and food biz try to keep thier labor cost at 20% if you double to 40% of their gross sales all of these biz would no longer exist unless they raised their prices enough to get them back to the point to where they made the same amount of money.
go figure says - Posted: October 5, 2014
Reloman, if its true that most retail/food biz would close their doors if they paid a living wage, say $15/hr than, without raising their prices for goods and services,according to dog all those business deserve to go out of business because of free market competition. If this is what is to be expected in a free market society than there will be alot of empty buildings and very few opportunities for people to spend any money on anything. Of course everyone will be out of work so it wont matter much. Most employees feel value when given raises, even if its just a little bit.
There’s a lot of ‘denial’ going on in foxbaggistan….humans role in climate change, Benghazi, the economic turnaround in spite of Boehner’s and MccConnel’s hijacking of Congress(granted, the majority of the gains are going into the pockets of the uberrich), Benghazi, racism, Benghazi, gender equality, Benghazi, gun control, Benghazi, Romneycare, Benghazi, the belief that there IS such a thing as pure free market, soft on crime, soft on immigration, an impediment to business, in bed with business, the War in Christians, the War on Christmas, Sasquatch, acts without consulting Congress, consults Congress instead of acting, Benghazi, Obama’s religion, Obama’s citizenship, Obama’s ideological affiliation-he’s(all at the same time) a Liberal, a Fascist, a Communist, a Socialist, a babyeater, a warmonger(I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with that one), a feckless wimp, a_________, a __________, a ________…gosh, I’m sure i left plenty out that the bagger’s will fill in…
Dogula says - Posted: October 5, 2014
Exactly what point are you trying to make, Hmmmm? Most of your post is a leftist dreamscape, with no attachment to reality.
What are you on, and can I have some, please?
Hmmm... says - Posted: October 5, 2014
Dog, I was agreeing with Rick(that was my main point). I guess a deeper point is that the Bub’s and Baggers have criticized EVERYTHING our current president has done to the point of contradicting themselves continually…..It kind of takes the punch out of the things he SHOULD be criticized for. My politics ARE decidedly leftist-(in a case by case manner and based on careful consideration of facts mixed with my spiritual values-not because of any knee-jerk reaction), except for when it comes to violent and white collar crimes. Then I tend to skew towards the right. Sorry you can’t handle ‘reality’-the observation of and curiosity about is the basis of something called ‘science’. If there is a drug that I do(okay, sugar in my coffee, tylenol for headaches, a glass of wine with family at Christmas and Thanksgiving )… that would be it. Not that it should be any concern of yours.
“No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up”- Lily Tomlin.
cosa pescado says - Posted: October 5, 2014
‘What are you on, and can I have some, please?’
How old is the earth?
Parker says - Posted: October 5, 2014
You know I was reading where liberal economist Paul Krugman, someone that has been cited on these LTN Blogs, had praise for on oft-cited, and like Paul Krugman a Nobel Prize Winner, conservative economist, Milton Friedman.
Krugman disagreed with Friedman on many things. But respected him for certain research he did. And I bring that up because I don’t know why the liberal talking point so frequently isn’t to respectfully disagree and just point out areas where according to your particular opinion, you have a different view? Doing so would enhance public discourse.
Instead the plan is to label: you listen to Rush, you’re a tea bagger, or that’s what Fox News says!
I can’t speak for anyone else on this blog who thinks we should cut back on or at the very least restrain (but I didn’t say eliminate!) public spending.
But I think we should! And I’ve never once turned the dial to listen Rush, haven’t watched Fox News, or been to its website, in over 3 months, nor have I ever been to a tea party rally.
If you disagree intelligently in America, that’s healthy! But it’s unfortunate that this constant desire to label has crept into our dialogue!
copper says - Posted: October 5, 2014
Rush who?
dumbfounded says - Posted: October 5, 2014
Solid thoughts, Parker. However, I think it may be a bit dishonest to imply that only “liberals” refuse to agree to disagree or label those who disagree with them. It has become entirely too de rigeur in today’s discourse to show nothing but contempt for your fellow citizens. I find myself falling in to temptation frequently myself. And I don’t like it.
Birds need both right and left wings to soar.
cosa pescado says - Posted: October 6, 2014
‘haven’t watched Fox News, or been to its website, in over 3 months’
It takes about 4 years for the side effects to wear off.
Kevin Murphy says - Posted: October 6, 2014
The desperate challenges we face as our country falls into oligarchy call for desperate measures. Ultra-rightwing factions now own most of our government, communications media and banking. Politely debating the issues of trickle down reaganomics, the never-ending military industrial complex’s drumbeat for war, the insane notion that corporations are people and money is free speech and a myriad of other right-wing disasters came to an end for me when Bush was installed as President in 2001.
As far as I am concerned since Reagan began the sell-out of the middle class in 1980 we have been in a battle to save our republic from the power of corporations and the billionaires, and we are losing badly.
These forces, and those on the right that support them, must be called out for the willfully ignorant dupes that they are and must be stopped at all costs. The hell with namby pamby polite discourse, this is too important. Get mad, speak out, get off your butt and get politically active and vote before we’re all serfs in the new feudalism.
Parker says - Posted: October 6, 2014
Kevin,
Great, speak out for your beliefs. Criticize mine. I just think if someone says they’re for or against something, say how & why you disagree. Instead of in essence, “If your opinion is different it could only be because you’re misinformed.” Cause that could go both ways, and lead nowhere.
And my view of corporations is not that different from yours. Economic and job growth comes from the more innovative small businesses. But I think Big Government enables Big Corporations. Big Corporations can afford the lawyers, lobbyists and accountants that frequently are needed to deal with the taxes, regulations & laws Big Govt. generates.
Moral Hazard says - Posted: October 6, 2014
Parker, how is a small business supposed to come up with the money to run an international airline, or car manufacturer, or energy supplier, or etc. etc. etc.
Large corporations are large because the markets they are involved in are capital intensive.
Hmmm... says - Posted: October 6, 2014
It has been a hallmark of the aristocracy to maintain a veneer of civility whilst enacting policies that brutalize their subjects.
Moral Hazard says - Posted: October 6, 2014
Kevin, not a word of what you wrote makes any sense.
Large corps do very expensive work, and make lots of money….but as is always the case, they do not earn excessive profits.
Numbers don’t lie….ExxonMobile earns about 9.5% Return on Assets.
How is a 9.5% ROA excessive? How can you get people to invest in work that earns less than 10% on assets employed? Would you invest at that low of a return in a business that generally does business in unstable third world countries?
Moral, I respectfully disagree with your statement. The majority of his words make a LOT of sense to me. Assitiona;;y, I can’t see how a ROA can be figured…given that ExxonMobile has been adjusting figures for decades. What you are suggesting is a ‘too big to fail’ scenario. Again, respectfully disagree with the cynical insanity of that.
go figure says - Posted: October 6, 2014
Moral h, your comment that big corporations dont make big profits, well I was eating my apple and about choked. Really? It us to be that millions was the benchmark, now it it gazillions of dollars in profits. How much does any one person/corporation need for buying all the stuff one needs? Look at the Koch people. Excess to the extreme, and there are examples everywhere. The problem is greed and power.
go figure what you must remember is that public corporations are not one person but rather millions of people and it could be the 1% that own shares all the way down to a school teacher thru their pension plan or life insurance policy. Most of the corporations are owned by instutional investers like insurance companies, mutual funds(peoples ira s, and just regular savings) pention plans, 401ks. These profits are momey maney people are counting on for retirement.
Kevin Murphy says - Posted: October 6, 2014
reloman, with all due respect(none), that’s nonsense. Do you not recall the bush crash of ’08 or is that not part of your brainscrubbed BillOtheClown/RushBo reality?
Parker says - Posted: October 6, 2014
Kevin,
You have the inability to engage in discussion. The crash of ’08 for instance. The Bush Admin. definitely has to take blame. But where were the Democrats, who controlled Congress at the time, proposing anything to stop it!
And Jimmy Carter?
Anyway, fine, disagree. But you falsely stated in a previous story how was under the influence of someone I don’t listen to, at all. And now you claim to know all my lifelong beliefs. I’ve always been Pro-Choice, am I wrong there?
You need to not just label those you diasagree with. It will open up your perspectives.
As I said, I’m close to being with you on corporations. Anyone who’s dealt with Aramark, Vail, & Harrah’s/
Harveys here in town, can see why & first hand the growing companies are their smaller competitors.
reloman says - Posted: October 6, 2014
Kevin, i am not sure how your post relates to mine, other than proving my point(thanks for that) as millions of middle class people who were looking to retire at that time couldnt because much of tneir retirement funds were invested in the markets via pensions, 401ks & IRAS.
It took me a while to get your clown references as you probably spend 1000 times more hours watching fox news than i do(maybe even more as I never watch that channel).,
Might I suggest that you go to your doctor and get you meds adjusted, no disrespect intended(not).
rock4tahoe says - Posted: October 7, 2014
Kevin, you are wasting your time with Parker. He has no idea how to use a search engine and he thinks Newt Gingrich should get credit for the great economy in the 1990’s instead of President Clinton.
You see how Parker uses “who controlled Congress” in 2008 and “Jimmy Carter,” yet fails to mention Dennis Hastert’s GOP Control of Congress from 1999 to 2007. Gosh, what happened in those years… Oh, but to bring that up is to bring up old news that has NO relationship with today. Typical of bloggers that do not believe in History prior to January 2009 or some such nonsense.
Parker says - Posted: October 7, 2014
Rock,
After I caught you outright making stuff up, I’m surprised you have the audacity to comment. Outright making stuff up! Again where are these stories on Fox & Forbes that Congress had no economic impact? You said they existed. Where are they?
And I’ll just say if you would bother to actually read, I previously did post that I found plenty to fault with when Republicans had complete control.
You should learn to read in detail, don’t assume what views I’ve held previously (I originally registered as a Democrat, even checked a survey that I was liberal), how my views are derived such as where I, or others, get their news, what my economic condition is (you wrongly made an assumption there) what else? Oh yeah, you should not be so partisan as to outright make stories up!
cosa pescado says - Posted: October 7, 2014
Parker they didn’t make anything up. You are making yourself look very silly.
Parker says - Posted: October 7, 2014
No Cosa,
I get called all kinds of things from someone who made up a story, actually said there were multiple stories, on Fox & Forbes about how Congress had no impact on economic data! I called he or she on it, cause it made no sense. That person has no right to critique anything until they come clean.
If you’re caught making one thing up, what else is made up?
You Cosa, have gone after me about sources before. So I’m being silly?
And I generate a source, you attacked. (On criteria that could apply to all scientists, but anyway…) Generated another one you couldn’t attack.
So back to this. Either we have a degree of credibility on this blog or not?! Something was made up. May seem minor. But credibility is at stake!
cosa pescado says - Posted: October 7, 2014
‘ Generated another one you couldn’t attack.’
I highly doubt that is true. I don’t remember that source specifically but there hasn’t been a single piece of denier science posted here that I haven’t exposed to be bogus. Try it again see what happens.
You harp on this made up stuff, and don’t do anything to prove your point that Congress has a major impact on economic data.
That is the real issue.
The story you cite here Cosa, is not about a correlation, or lack thereof, between Congress and the economy. It’s about tax rates and the economy.
But at least you’re citing something specific and at least you support the notion that if someone states something, they should be able to back it up!
rock4tahoe says - Posted: October 11, 2014
Parker. I am not your internet librarian. Learn how to use a search engine and get over yourself.
Parker says - Posted: October 12, 2014
Rock,
I guess you missed that day in high school and/or college English where they lectured on sourcing?! When I took both, it was clearly stated that it’s the writer’s job to generate proof of their own claims! Failure to do so, generated at the minimum an F on the topic. And perhaps no unit credit for the class, because the writer’s entire credibility was now in question.
You’re not generating the proof, cause you were caught making something up. Period!
Sure. It’s just tax dollars. Apparently, judging by the comments, we taxpayers are an unlimited resource.
Take all you want.
So Dog you are OK with people risking their lives for less than min. Wage? Am I reading your comment correctly or did you just not think who these people are, There has not been a raise in min wage in quite some time and what a good many of them mean to us when we have a fire like we just had.
I am not okay with people risking their lives for less then miminam wage.
I am not okay with Brown’s form of the cal Fire taxation without representation either.
California is a giant mess. Can Brown’s term be over already?
Pine Tree, he’s about to get re-elected for another term. We all lose.
A job is worth what one person is willing to pay, and another is willing to do it for. The market can work that out much better than politicians can. Is there a lack of fire fighters willing to do the job?
Before everybody jumps all over me (again) let me say I greatly appreciate the job they do. But this system of sucking taxpayers dry for any and everything that anybody thinks is a good cause, has got to stop. You’re going to run out of other people’s money soon. Very soon.
Thanks for explaining capitalism for us, Dog. If you don’t value people, you won’t value their labor, or the fruits of it. Some people LOVE firefighters only when it’s THEIR house or local forests or community that’s endangered. It’s not just that you get what you pay for…you also pay for what you get. Screech on….
Hmmmm, you are welcome.
“this system of sucking taxpayers dry for any and everything that anybody thinks is a good cause, has got to stop”
I agree with “hmmmmmm” – the positive aspects of it aside, we always need to be reminded of the moral weakness of unrestrained capitalism, and Dougla sure helped us with that one. What ever happen to the moral philosophy of willingly paying for value? Dougla’s argument could be used to justify child labor or 16 hour, 6 day a week work days, and is still used to justify the outrageous working conditions and compensation for many factory workers in third world countries. One could even stretch it to justify slavery – “hey, if they don’t want to be slaves, they can just kill themselves.”
Pine Tree: I agree, can’t Moonbutts term be over. But alas all the sheep will re-elect this senile old tax hungry goat! Just wait, in January his hidden gas tax will rebound and then some from the lower prices today.
ljames, if one wants to stretch an idea to absurdity, you can posit any number of stupid ideas.
But you don’t need to stretch your socialistic “ideals” very far to achieve mayhem and murder. Your desired system has murdered millions of people over the past hundred years. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and numberous other socialistic leaders of banana republics have all murdered their own citizens in the name of reeducation toward the people’s utopia.
I’ll take the free market any day of the week.
you are just helping prove my point – it isnt all black and white, it isnt about a knee jerk reaction which “this system of sucking taxpayers dry for any and everything that anybody thinks is a good cause, has got to stop” certainly is.
Moreover, when one uses an argument where from a logical analogy, one can justify what you refer to as an “absurdity” (and why 16 hour work days and child labor is an absurdity to you is really interesting to say the least) than that argument doesn’t really further you cause. If you dont buy into the logical extension of your own argument, then I would venture to say you should look for a different argument for your position. But hey, I ain’t going to change any minds here either. That is why at some point you stop talking and just make your voice heard through the ballot box.
Pine. California is NOT in a “giant mess” and your comment is about 5 years old. We left the giant mess, Arnold, behind and elected someone that actually knows how to Govern.
It is not going to hurt anyone to pay Firefighters more than minimum wage.
Arnold had a similar, predominantly Democrat legislature to deal with. They’re the ones who make the laws, the governor just signs or vetoes, for the most part. They can over-ride him, if they really want to. And now we’ve got a super-majority of Democrats that can and do pass anything they want. occasionally Brown vetoes something, but not too often.
Everything that California is, currently, is totally on the heads of the left.
Dogula, California is in the best shape it has been in since the nineties.
Thank you Governor Brown and the Democrats in the California State Legislature!
Free Market? What Free Market?
St. Ayn of the Morans, http://www.wonkette.com/561974/john-oliver-presents-the-philosophy-of-ayn-rand-or-being-a-selfish-*****-video
So, all you people….what do you think of measure H which is proposed to raise your lake Valley Fire District’s tax by 600 percent AND insert an annual 3 percent CPI inflation? By the way the CPI is based for some reason on San Francisco, one of the most expensive places in the country to live.
Does management need to be changed out at Lake Valley?
I have no idea how many times I see 3 trucks with lights and sirens head full throttle up Luther pass, only to come quietly back in 20 minutes or so.
Why do they roll so much equipment for what is obviously a minor or even no issue?
Are we getting “services” we don’t need and now we are going to be paying 6 times more for it?
Oh yeah Dog…this is not a partisan issue….it is just because they can. Any agency thinks it needs to be bigger because isn’t it the most important?
Hmmm, you’re right. We do not have anything close to a free market in this country. So all of you who keep blaming it for our troubles, you can stop. It did NOT cause the problems we have. We ought to give it a try and see if it makes things better. Couldn’t get much worse.
And Kevin, Ayn Rand’s philosophy was her own. It is not mine, nor is it most libertarians’. She was rather simplistic, and very prickly. Believe it or not, most libertarians are nice people. We just want to be left alone.
Dog, you need to avail yourself of some serious reading on economics. You are more likely to find a unicorn before you will ever find a true free market society – and there are numerous reasons for that. The fact that people have been shown to make irrational decisions related to purchasing goods and services is one, but a bigger issue is that Corporations hate competition and do everything to kill it – can you say monopoly. For example, nearly 75% of food (markets) are controlled by a small number of Corporations alone in the US. So monopolies are in fact the antithesis of a free market system, but are in fact the natural outcome. You could maybe rely on government to control corporations to minimize the influence of monopolies on the system you claim you want and would be perfect, but that would violate your major founding principle of no government involvement in economics.
Other important considerations why a truly free market system (i.e., no government intervention as you suggest) is a bad idea. Clean air, water, sustainability of resources, etc. Because of government, and against the will of Corporations, our air and water today is far better then it was in the 1960’s. Go to Mexico City or Beijing if you want fewer regulations and more lung disease. Auto safety is far better than the auto industry was willing to do. Over 20,000 people die in similar size earthquakes in Pakistan vs California due to serious building regulations – free market has no conscience and is unwilling to spend the money for the social good. Can you say Adidias hiring kids at poverty wages. We benefit as a society when Corporations are forced pay a living wage. According to an article in Forbes (you know that liberal bastion) Walmart cost Tax Payers $6.2 billion a year because there low wages force many of their workers to seek assistance. If Walmart paid more, it would cost us less, the Walton Family would still be one of the richest families on the planet, and their workers would have more income to spend on good and services, driving the economy.
I adhere to the principles of Teddy Roosevelt – capitalism with government oversight. Something mind you that put him at great odds with the robber barons (Carnegie’s, Mellon’s, Rockefeller, etc.) in his own Republican Party.
Rick
Well I think all the people out there that are against being a part of a system where everyone contributes to the services they get should get their way. But those that dont want to pay for those services have some kind of electronic chip or scarlet letter on their house so when the big fire comes roaring down the mountain side the minimum wage part time untrained firefighters can scan your code and then drive on by to go p.rotect the house and lives of your neighbors. Of course you wont be able to drive away because you didnt pay for the roads or their maintenance and your car wont start cuz that chip thing, again. And, of course, you wouldnt think of having insurance because you were told to so after your house burns down and you find youeself homeless and hungry, well dont be looking for any handouts because you chose to not vote for these services to be available to folks in your circumstances and you are against entitlements, called charity to some. So if this is the way that dogzilla and aspen country, and cj of course want it I say good, let the hard working firefighters and police and worker bees help others that appreciate their efforts and willingness to possibly loose their lives over it. Texas is waiting for you all……
“You didn’t build that!” Bwahahaha!!
It’s not a free market that has created our country’s problems, it is those who deify the term while licking the boots of their corporate masters(Dog-here is where you get up and go look in the mirror) on one hand and then use the government to limit ‘freedom’. Regarding your protests of ‘innocence’ respective of Liberturdarianism, Ayn Rand’s ‘simplicity’ and ‘prickliness'(of course YOU are NOTHING like THAT….oops-my Booscheet-meter just broke. I’ll have to pay more than minimum wage to get it fixed). AND, I will have to agree(gulp-god please NO!!!) with your buddy CJ…it can get much worse. I’m thinking if the Re’thug’licans take control of Congress we’ll be having food riots. I guess the term laissez faire economics means nothing to you. Or everything.
egads – guess all the right buttons all got pushed… BTW, good rational comments by “Rick Says” – he must have got on this thread by accident! :)
Rick, maybe YOU should read some economics. Corporations can only become monopolistic with the aid of government regulation. In a TRUE free market, there would always be a smaller, more nimble entrepreneur to undercut price and quality. But government protectionism is used very well by your corporate entities.
BASIC ECONOMICS.
I’ve never said there should be NO law, either. The rule of law is essential in a free market economy. But under the current administration in DC, we’ve got a banana republic, where rule of law means nothing, and regulation is by the whim of the regime.
Lawless. And no, it ain’t working.
The corporations buy their way into the control and abuse the government. As a supporter of corporate ability to buy more control after the citizens united decision you should know this.
Good comments Rick, though if you dont think that corporations like wal mart wont pass on the added cost of higher wages to the consumer you maybe alittle naive. And they will be able to because their compitors will be doing the same thing. This will give us a unintended consequence of hyper inflation(possibly) which will cut into buying power of everyone. Unless there is somehow an increase in productivity to offset the higher labor costs(read employees losing their jobs)
This series of post is quite funny with the altra teabaggers and the ultra libturds fighting each other. On saying less goverment controls and the other saying that corporations control the goverment. Soo many conspiracy therorist here. The truth is probably some where in the middle about who controls the goverment, sometimes there are laws passed that favor corps sometimes laws are pssed that hurts them. I doubt many of the therorist here on either side will agree with me though.
why should fire fighters get special wage consideration, given that like those who work for the military, they do so by choice. this is blatant exploitation of the social climate generated by recent fires, fires that continue provide employment for those who choose fire fighting as a career.
baphomet…where are you coming from with your comment. These are the people who serve your community and provide for your safety. I hope you don’t have a heart attack tonight, knucklehead.
The difference is that the military takes care of all your life. They are giving you a place to live 24-7-365 they feed you 24-7-365. Most of these firefighters are only living in the stations when on duty and have to have other arrangements for living when not working. I find it funny that everyone is all for the raising of minimum wage but since these are government workers who choose to do this its different. I know that I would not risk my life doing this work for that kind of wage.
I fear our future in the Industrialized nations will wind up looking like a mix between “Blade runner”, “Running Man”, “Johnny Pneumonic” and “Brave New World”. Ok, maybe a smattering of “1984”, though Dogula and I would differ greatly over which current politico represents ‘Big Brother’. I don’t necessarily see it as a result of ‘grand conspiracies’ so much as a consequence of the ultra rich hanging out the ultra rich….living in similar neighborhoods, going to the same vacation spots and colleges, kids becoming friends and enemies and spouses, business partners etc.. Of course they discuss business and politics. We do have an undeniable revolving door between lobbyists, politicians and corporations. Conspiracy theories or no-some dots connect themselves without any help from us.
Correction…he was a 28 year employee, never made it to CEO.
hey concerned citizen…you, the true knucklehead, simply do not get it: there is no draft. it is the choice of the fire person or military person to do the job they are doing. if they feel it’s too risky for the pay, they are free to choose another line of work.
Dog, you need to not only read economics, but history. The robber barons of the 20’s (the closest thing to the free market) had little in the way of regulations and created huge monopolies. Estimates place Rockefeller s wealth in today’s dollars as several times Bill Gates.
Your version of the free-market or how it operates is fantasy and as has already been shown by history, not possible. People (and greed) get in the way of your ideology. Your notion of economics is not supported by any real economists (conservative and liberal economist alike all agree the notion of a purely free-market system is a theoretical construct that can never operate in the real world), but I should not be surprised as your notions about science aren’t not supported by scientists. Dog, you also failed to mention the inability of the free market to deal with serious social issues like clean air and water, building codes for earthquake safety – and if you say well ok gov here is ok, then you have lost your utopian free market. Keep in mind, in the history of the world there is not such thing as a truly free-market economy. The U.S. probably came closest in the 1920s – monopolies are the natural outcome as wealth becomes accumulated in the hands of a few, they drive out competition – a very natural human reaction. As I said, humans ruin your ideology.
Reloman, there are conflicting studies on the effects of minimum wage, so much so, that there is little evidence past efforts have had much in the way of deleterious affects. In fact, these past efforts have resulted in minimal negative effects on cost of goods or job loss (the claim of the Chamber).
So in as much as low-wage workers have actually seen their pay decrease (not keeping up with inflation), I see no evidence that increasing the minimum wage has any real negative effects. Places like Peet’s Starbucks, In-n-Out Burger are doing just fine paying over $10/hr.
I suggest folks read Billionaire Nick Hauaner’s essay on why the minimum wage needs to increase. It is enlightening. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014.html#.VDDPxefdB1w
Rick
Rick, i have no problem with the current min wage going up to $10 as you have said it has not keep pace with inflation, as a matter of i believe it should be index to inflation. fyi Starbucks starts people at min wage, i have a nephew who is a sift superviser, when they uped the min. wage in july he got a bump also.
However i do believe you were speaking about the living wage, which i have heard a number of $15 per hour. most retail and food biz try to keep thier labor cost at 20% if you double to 40% of their gross sales all of these biz would no longer exist unless they raised their prices enough to get them back to the point to where they made the same amount of money.
Reloman, if its true that most retail/food biz would close their doors if they paid a living wage, say $15/hr than, without raising their prices for goods and services,according to dog all those business deserve to go out of business because of free market competition. If this is what is to be expected in a free market society than there will be alot of empty buildings and very few opportunities for people to spend any money on anything. Of course everyone will be out of work so it wont matter much. Most employees feel value when given raises, even if its just a little bit.
Why would dogula or the other foxbaggers care? Despite the denials, the resemblance is spot on. In case you missed it: http://www.wonkette.com/561974/john-oliver-presents-the-philosophy-of-ayn-rand-or-being-a-selfish-*****-video
There’s a lot of ‘denial’ going on in foxbaggistan….humans role in climate change, Benghazi, the economic turnaround in spite of Boehner’s and MccConnel’s hijacking of Congress(granted, the majority of the gains are going into the pockets of the uberrich), Benghazi, racism, Benghazi, gender equality, Benghazi, gun control, Benghazi, Romneycare, Benghazi, the belief that there IS such a thing as pure free market, soft on crime, soft on immigration, an impediment to business, in bed with business, the War in Christians, the War on Christmas, Sasquatch, acts without consulting Congress, consults Congress instead of acting, Benghazi, Obama’s religion, Obama’s citizenship, Obama’s ideological affiliation-he’s(all at the same time) a Liberal, a Fascist, a Communist, a Socialist, a babyeater, a warmonger(I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with that one), a feckless wimp, a_________, a __________, a ________…gosh, I’m sure i left plenty out that the bagger’s will fill in…
Exactly what point are you trying to make, Hmmmm? Most of your post is a leftist dreamscape, with no attachment to reality.
What are you on, and can I have some, please?
Dog, I was agreeing with Rick(that was my main point). I guess a deeper point is that the Bub’s and Baggers have criticized EVERYTHING our current president has done to the point of contradicting themselves continually…..It kind of takes the punch out of the things he SHOULD be criticized for. My politics ARE decidedly leftist-(in a case by case manner and based on careful consideration of facts mixed with my spiritual values-not because of any knee-jerk reaction), except for when it comes to violent and white collar crimes. Then I tend to skew towards the right. Sorry you can’t handle ‘reality’-the observation of and curiosity about is the basis of something called ‘science’. If there is a drug that I do(okay, sugar in my coffee, tylenol for headaches, a glass of wine with family at Christmas and Thanksgiving )… that would be it. Not that it should be any concern of yours.
“No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up”- Lily Tomlin.
‘What are you on, and can I have some, please?’
How old is the earth?
You know I was reading where liberal economist Paul Krugman, someone that has been cited on these LTN Blogs, had praise for on oft-cited, and like Paul Krugman a Nobel Prize Winner, conservative economist, Milton Friedman.
Krugman disagreed with Friedman on many things. But respected him for certain research he did. And I bring that up because I don’t know why the liberal talking point so frequently isn’t to respectfully disagree and just point out areas where according to your particular opinion, you have a different view? Doing so would enhance public discourse.
Instead the plan is to label: you listen to Rush, you’re a tea bagger, or that’s what Fox News says!
I can’t speak for anyone else on this blog who thinks we should cut back on or at the very least restrain (but I didn’t say eliminate!) public spending.
But I think we should! And I’ve never once turned the dial to listen Rush, haven’t watched Fox News, or been to its website, in over 3 months, nor have I ever been to a tea party rally.
If you disagree intelligently in America, that’s healthy! But it’s unfortunate that this constant desire to label has crept into our dialogue!
Rush who?
Solid thoughts, Parker. However, I think it may be a bit dishonest to imply that only “liberals” refuse to agree to disagree or label those who disagree with them. It has become entirely too de rigeur in today’s discourse to show nothing but contempt for your fellow citizens. I find myself falling in to temptation frequently myself. And I don’t like it.
Birds need both right and left wings to soar.
‘haven’t watched Fox News, or been to its website, in over 3 months’
It takes about 4 years for the side effects to wear off.
The desperate challenges we face as our country falls into oligarchy call for desperate measures. Ultra-rightwing factions now own most of our government, communications media and banking. Politely debating the issues of trickle down reaganomics, the never-ending military industrial complex’s drumbeat for war, the insane notion that corporations are people and money is free speech and a myriad of other right-wing disasters came to an end for me when Bush was installed as President in 2001.
As far as I am concerned since Reagan began the sell-out of the middle class in 1980 we have been in a battle to save our republic from the power of corporations and the billionaires, and we are losing badly.
These forces, and those on the right that support them, must be called out for the willfully ignorant dupes that they are and must be stopped at all costs. The hell with namby pamby polite discourse, this is too important. Get mad, speak out, get off your butt and get politically active and vote before we’re all serfs in the new feudalism.
Kevin,
Great, speak out for your beliefs. Criticize mine. I just think if someone says they’re for or against something, say how & why you disagree. Instead of in essence, “If your opinion is different it could only be because you’re misinformed.” Cause that could go both ways, and lead nowhere.
And my view of corporations is not that different from yours. Economic and job growth comes from the more innovative small businesses. But I think Big Government enables Big Corporations. Big Corporations can afford the lawyers, lobbyists and accountants that frequently are needed to deal with the taxes, regulations & laws Big Govt. generates.
Parker, how is a small business supposed to come up with the money to run an international airline, or car manufacturer, or energy supplier, or etc. etc. etc.
Large corporations are large because the markets they are involved in are capital intensive.
It has been a hallmark of the aristocracy to maintain a veneer of civility whilst enacting policies that brutalize their subjects.
Kevin, not a word of what you wrote makes any sense.
Large corps do very expensive work, and make lots of money….but as is always the case, they do not earn excessive profits.
Numbers don’t lie….ExxonMobile earns about 9.5% Return on Assets.
How is a 9.5% ROA excessive? How can you get people to invest in work that earns less than 10% on assets employed? Would you invest at that low of a return in a business that generally does business in unstable third world countries?
http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/xom/profile
Moral, I respectfully disagree with your statement. The majority of his words make a LOT of sense to me. Assitiona;;y, I can’t see how a ROA can be figured…given that ExxonMobile has been adjusting figures for decades. What you are suggesting is a ‘too big to fail’ scenario. Again, respectfully disagree with the cynical insanity of that.
Moral h, your comment that big corporations dont make big profits, well I was eating my apple and about choked. Really? It us to be that millions was the benchmark, now it it gazillions of dollars in profits. How much does any one person/corporation need for buying all the stuff one needs? Look at the Koch people. Excess to the extreme, and there are examples everywhere. The problem is greed and power.
Moral John and Parker, your inability to admit the miserable failure of your lifelong beliefs in supply side economics and the fact that the Hippies were right about everything remind me of so many bitter old unhappy people. You just can’t face reality. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924
“Additionally”
go figure what you must remember is that public corporations are not one person but rather millions of people and it could be the 1% that own shares all the way down to a school teacher thru their pension plan or life insurance policy. Most of the corporations are owned by instutional investers like insurance companies, mutual funds(peoples ira s, and just regular savings) pention plans, 401ks. These profits are momey maney people are counting on for retirement.
reloman, with all due respect(none), that’s nonsense. Do you not recall the bush crash of ’08 or is that not part of your brainscrubbed BillOtheClown/RushBo reality?
Kevin,
You have the inability to engage in discussion. The crash of ’08 for instance. The Bush Admin. definitely has to take blame. But where were the Democrats, who controlled Congress at the time, proposing anything to stop it!
And Jimmy Carter?
Anyway, fine, disagree. But you falsely stated in a previous story how was under the influence of someone I don’t listen to, at all. And now you claim to know all my lifelong beliefs. I’ve always been Pro-Choice, am I wrong there?
You need to not just label those you diasagree with. It will open up your perspectives.
As I said, I’m close to being with you on corporations. Anyone who’s dealt with Aramark, Vail, & Harrah’s/
Harveys here in town, can see why & first hand the growing companies are their smaller competitors.
Kevin, i am not sure how your post relates to mine, other than proving my point(thanks for that) as millions of middle class people who were looking to retire at that time couldnt because much of tneir retirement funds were invested in the markets via pensions, 401ks & IRAS.
It took me a while to get your clown references as you probably spend 1000 times more hours watching fox news than i do(maybe even more as I never watch that channel).,
Might I suggest that you go to your doctor and get you meds adjusted, no disrespect intended(not).
Kevin, you are wasting your time with Parker. He has no idea how to use a search engine and he thinks Newt Gingrich should get credit for the great economy in the 1990’s instead of President Clinton.
You see how Parker uses “who controlled Congress” in 2008 and “Jimmy Carter,” yet fails to mention Dennis Hastert’s GOP Control of Congress from 1999 to 2007. Gosh, what happened in those years… Oh, but to bring that up is to bring up old news that has NO relationship with today. Typical of bloggers that do not believe in History prior to January 2009 or some such nonsense.
Rock,
After I caught you outright making stuff up, I’m surprised you have the audacity to comment. Outright making stuff up! Again where are these stories on Fox & Forbes that Congress had no economic impact? You said they existed. Where are they?
And I’ll just say if you would bother to actually read, I previously did post that I found plenty to fault with when Republicans had complete control.
You should learn to read in detail, don’t assume what views I’ve held previously (I originally registered as a Democrat, even checked a survey that I was liberal), how my views are derived such as where I, or others, get their news, what my economic condition is (you wrongly made an assumption there) what else? Oh yeah, you should not be so partisan as to outright make stories up!
Parker they didn’t make anything up. You are making yourself look very silly.
No Cosa,
I get called all kinds of things from someone who made up a story, actually said there were multiple stories, on Fox & Forbes about how Congress had no impact on economic data! I called he or she on it, cause it made no sense. That person has no right to critique anything until they come clean.
If you’re caught making one thing up, what else is made up?
You Cosa, have gone after me about sources before. So I’m being silly?
And I generate a source, you attacked. (On criteria that could apply to all scientists, but anyway…) Generated another one you couldn’t attack.
So back to this. Either we have a degree of credibility on this blog or not?! Something was made up. May seem minor. But credibility is at stake!
‘ Generated another one you couldn’t attack.’
I highly doubt that is true. I don’t remember that source specifically but there hasn’t been a single piece of denier science posted here that I haven’t exposed to be bogus. Try it again see what happens.
You harp on this made up stuff, and don’t do anything to prove your point that Congress has a major impact on economic data.
That is the real issue.
i found this, it mentions Congress, policy, and economic data.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/11/02/non-partisan-congressional-tax-report-debunks-core-conservative-economic-theory-gop-suppresses-study/
You also fell for that Pipe Club BS.
The story you cite here Cosa, is not about a correlation, or lack thereof, between Congress and the economy. It’s about tax rates and the economy.
But at least you’re citing something specific and at least you support the notion that if someone states something, they should be able to back it up!
Parker. I am not your internet librarian. Learn how to use a search engine and get over yourself.
Rock,
I guess you missed that day in high school and/or college English where they lectured on sourcing?! When I took both, it was clearly stated that it’s the writer’s job to generate proof of their own claims! Failure to do so, generated at the minimum an F on the topic. And perhaps no unit credit for the class, because the writer’s entire credibility was now in question.
You’re not generating the proof, cause you were caught making something up. Period!
Rock please dont interpret what I say.