Movement under way for free transit in Tahoe
By Kathryn Reed
Free transit. Regional transit. Transit that goes where people want to go.
These are concepts that many tourist destinations have embraced for years. Lake Tahoe, not so much.
But that could change. Tahoe Transportation District in 2015 plans to make a concerted effort to take the necessary steps to bring free regional transit to the Lake Tahoe Basin.
“If each community in the region is interested in being a competitive resort community, we have to go there (with free transit),” Carl Hasty, executive director of Tahoe Transportation District, told Lake Tahoe News.
Hasty was at the Dec. 9 South Lake Tahoe City Council meeting giving the electeds an update on transit issues, including the loop road near the state line.
He started out by saying there is a strong correlation between a strong economy and modern infrastructure. Tahoe is lacking that infrastructure and the economy proves his point.
In looking at places like Vail, Whistler and Park City that offer free transit, the funding comes from federal, state and local government entities.
“We need to create funding sources that don’t currently exist,” Hasty told the council.
Hasty did not have a dollar figure for what free transit would cost or what the city’s share would be. But he is simultaneously working with the North Shore to try to tie the bus services together.
“On free transportation, I’d like a comprehensive network,” Councilman Austin Sass said. He wants it to include biking and hiking trailheads. “I would like it to go from Spooner Summit to Echo Summit.”
Sass also wants to make sure officials from El Dorado and Douglas counties are part of the dialog.
Hasty said a free, expanded bus service would benefit locals and tourists. For tourists, he told LTN, it provides a fluid experience, where they don’t have to worry about how to get from point A to point B.
Plus, he added, when a bus service is safe and convenient, it adds to the overall experience.
When TTD has offered free service on BlueGo on the South Shore the ridership tends to double – with more locals and visitors on board. But those opportunities are infrequent and are based on the ability to get outside funding to cover the costs.
Vail Resorts pays TTD to provide free bus service to Heavenly Mountain Resort on certain routes – mainly the ones servicing lodging properties.
Hasty said in 2015 TTD will be actively seeking community input about what it wants in public transit throughout the Lake Tahoe Basin.
Great idea to have free transportation in the Tahoe Basin. It would really cut down on personal auto use, and promote more locals to use services. I won’t drive & try to park to go to Heavenly Village or the Fresh Ketch, or Camp Richardson… but I would take free transportation to get there. Unclog the traffic arteries in our beautiful town(s)!
Sun Valley, Idaho has been giving free bus service for years. Funded by local sales tax and the ski resort. Get as many drivers off the road as possible cleans the air and unclogs the roads.
Lake Tahoe is perhaps moving slowly closer to what national parks like Yosemite do, charge an entrance fee ($20 for 7 days, currently proposed increase to $30) to all vehicles to fund ideas like this. Or an annual pass (currently $40, proposed increase to $60).
Is this a good idea? To fund free buses, most would probably respond no. It is not surprising Carl Hasty was unwilling to provide specific numbers.
Tax payer dollars and government funding. Doesnt sound like a good plan to me.
when is the last time any of you folks rode the shame Train?
I remember my last ride January 76.
what about you old Hal, old Tom and the rest of you folks that are in charge?
I have ridden the bus many times and sat at the bus shelters in freezing, sleeting weather. That was my objection to the new “shelters” that have no front. One of my sons, born and raised in Tahoe, rides the bus as his primary method of transportation to and from work every day.
At one TTD meeting, I asked the Board who among them had ever ridden the bus. Not a one, except me. I suspect none of the other Council members have ever ridden, but maybe they will answer for themselves.
Steve, that is completely impossible. There is no possible way I can be charged to access my house and property. No single park owns the Basin so nobody can charge. This is not a park.
I would file a lawsuit the day it took effect.
LES – Thanks for bringing Sun Valley into the conversation. They have several models that Tahoe could learn from. Every bus stop has posted schedules and the buses run often.
I love how they have preserved the feeling of an “old west” town and revitilized it at the same time. Let’s borrow ideas that have worked for other mountain resort communities.
blue go will be offering free bus service from dec. 20 to jan 4 this holiday season, as they recieved some sort of special funding for it.
Maybe a seminar that encourages all management (at minimum) who have input to any decision making process involving public transit to ride every single route they have a say over might be conductive to a better experience. This includes elected and appointed public officials.
A person making minimum wage and working about 40 hours a week clears about $1K a month. With rent starting around $500-$1K a month, this can be huge, for many workers to have reliable and safe free transit. Let’s not kid ourselves, no free lunch here, but what if it is more productive, efficient, ect… not to have a farebox.
I don’t picture permanent residents or anyone paying property taxes in the region having to pay to enter the parks. But charging non-residents to drive personal vehicles into El Dorado National Park makes sense, especially if free shuttles make it easy, convenient and comfortable to move about within the park, and to Stateline and shopping and such. Visitors not jamming the roadsides with parked cars and those who really have to drive not facing traffic jams — this is exactly the kind of thing I’d like to see a combination of tax money and fees go to make possible.
Free transport is a pipe dream in Tahoe, but there probably is a subsidy model that could work a lot better than the FUBAR system currently in place.
I confess to being a bit ignorant about how TTD works. I intend to look into this promptly. I am prepared to be horrified based on what I do know of TTD’s loop road antics and the random “lets try this” things that have been applied to the bus system since I came to Tahoe.
My one experience with the bus system was an attempt to use it to meet an appointment time (admittedly in summer, and over a distance of about 4 miles).I had given myself another 40 minutes over estimated drive time.
Between traffic, and other issues, it became obvious I was not going to make the appointment time unless I made other plan. I got off the bus and walked and barely made it, but I did make it. Never felt compelled to do that again.
If the bus system was a non profit, and if it ran well, with some local subsidies, I could see it being virtually free/minimum cost and attracting more riders.
The subsidies clearly are the problem, and they would have to be fixed and predictable as opposed to the current random grant or windfall that currently is seen.
A majority of small Tahoe businesses, whether tourist oriented or not, are barely breaking even. They have no financial room for another tax or fee without just adding it to the price of whatever they do.
The cost and the schedules in the current system CLEARLY do not attract riders other than the desperate, the curious or those using some subsidy like the Heavenly hotel shuttles.
My guess is there are a bunch of fat cats at the top of TTD which soak up many unnecessary dollars in high salaries, benefits and other costs.
One thing I do know…any plan connected with a Tahoe Park that gave the National Park Service ANY authority or input would result in such a series of regulations and interference that it would drive more people away than it would attract (in my experienced opinion).
I think Austin Saas made comment later about expanding the bus service to take people to trail heads for hiking and mountain biking. I don’t use the bus, but I would if it went to trail heads. That’s a really great idea.
Maybe we give Tahoe locals free or subsidized ride fairs and charge tourists. I could see Tourists using the bus systems if we incorporated recreation destinations.
Great idea maybe we should look into green zeppelin rides across the lake.
I have been riding the bus system at least twice a year every since it was free on Memorial and Labor day.
The drivers are safe and courteous. I refuse to pay for parking so this is the only time I visit the Marriott complex.
ZERO tourists use the system. The working poor of Tahoe are happy for the free ride but don’t BS me and claim the out of town visitors use the bus (except for the Heavenly shuttle). The bus stops at the event on Ski Run and the Marriott. No one got on or off at either.
PS
How much is spent advertising the free bus service??
If the TTD finds a way to provide “free transportation “.. Then they BETTER DAMMED WELL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO SERVE MEYERS!!.. Because ” there is no funding for it” will not be an excuse!!
Shenja, most likelt the funding for it would have to come from the residents of the area, which would mean you would have to get your fellow Meyers neighbors to vote to tax themselves to pay for service out to Meyers. It will still be about funding and ridership, if your neighbors dont want to pay for it Meyers will not get, its as simple as that. On another note Huber is interviewing drivers in SLT this week so that may be an option for you
LeanForward,
“I think Austin Saas made comment later about expanding the bus service to take people to trail heads for hiking and mountain biking. I don’t use the bus, but I would if it went to trail heads.”
I use the Ridge bus to access Tahoe Rim Trails(TRT). The Carson City bus route can also access Kings grade from the top of Spooner Summit to end at 1st Street in Carson City.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1PcaiFfvV9o
I don’t there will ever be transit improvements unless the local community votes for fees or taxes. While I would support it not sue many others would not. We have what we have.
Thanks reloman… Trust me .. I’ve been informed and have gone to several meetings about it…It’s just the idea that we can provide service to other cities and possibly even a boat taxi and now the possibility of free service and still leave the residents of MEYERS out of the whole thing and let us come up with a case and find funding on our own to make it happen is just ridiculous to me. I’ve been to more remote places that have service to people that need it and are willing to pay a little for it.. And have figured out how to put a few bikes on a van!… This is not something that I should have to fight for.. It’s something that every sustainable community should be able to figure out!
And… Yes I consider the hard working people of MEYERS just as much as a part of the ” community” as Gardnerville ,Minden, Kingsbury grade,Carson city , Incline, Kings beach, Sand harbor,Homewood, Tahoma, Camp Richardson ,Squaw valley, Alpine meadows, Northstar,Tahoe city, Truckee, and even Reno..All of which have access to public transportation provided by the TTD
Yes Shenja, and all of those areas except for camp rich(which is only in the summer time and the ridership more than pays for it) pays for those services. You have to remember the SLT used to have its own bus service that went under and TDD took it over(they ddidn’t have to but did so the city would have the limited service it does). All of those other services you mentioned the funds come from grant money that can only be use for that service. Personally I don’t think the ferry will pay for it self.
It sounds like your real beef is with the county who siis resresponsible for making sure your area has bus service. It is not the taxpayers of SLT responsibility to pay for services for Meyers, that’s why the county collect taxes in your area.
Shenja, I think we are getting there! Possibly free transportation and maybe even including Tahoe Paradise!
Can you imagine hopping on the bus in meyers to come into town for a shopping trip or a meal and then getting a ride home? At no cost?
Lets hope this becomes a reality. It will benefit us all. OLS
Free transportation for the community with free transportation to Meyers? Sounds like a job for Tahoe4Tahoe.
Long Skiis and Buck: call your people on this and we’ll wait for your affirmative responses on how to proceed.
Thanks.
Why should OLS and Buck have to provide free transport? They already do plenty around here. You want city and county governments and the taxes they suck up, let them cover it. What ARE you paying so much tax for anyhow? Just to cover the cost of ribbon cutting ceremonies every time a new tourist attraction opens up?
4-mer: The money the TTD wants to spend on the ferry and the loop road would provide free transportation around the basin 24/7 for free!!! So call the elected officials and let then know and see if they listen. Time will tell.
Buck:
My making a phone call would have zero impact, but Tahoe4Tahoe has already demonstrated a track record for accomplishing what they believe is best for the community. I would think that free transportation is something in which they’d take an interest since it would certainly be beneficial for the community.
It would help to have a map that actually shows bus stops AND stop lights! Somebody who never takes the bus and has a nice car is running the system. I do get tired of having to go clear to NV in order to come back home to the Y. I’d be glad to pay for a system that runs more often and goes more places. Don’t make it nice just for the visitors! Make it nice for the locals, especially the disabled and elderly!
I’ve been telling my friends that I’m going to take a bus from ” the y” down to Walmart and back and spend as much money as I can.. Stuff it all into a backpack and then take the bus to the next transportation meeting and see how they( whoever) reacts to the idea that I used local transportation to spend money off the hill
I think free public transportation thru out So. Shore would be a great addition to our community! Money much better spent on public transit than on an uneccessary loop road at stateline or a empty ferry going across the lake. OLS
OLS are you sure that tahoe4tahoe wants to back a tax increase issue? because that is what you are talking about and it would have to include the county area also maybe the LTCC voting district. We all know that the money cant come out of the city general fund as we cant even afford to pave our decaying roads. The money cant come out of the count as they are 100 million dollars in the red. What many people dont understand is that things like the looproad and the ferry are 1 time grant funding that are for capital improvements not for everyday running of services like a bus line.
Many mountian resort towns have free bus services like Park City but it is paid for via a tax and since a majority of the VOTING(meaning those that vote, not just live here) drive i am wondering if they would approve a tax on something they will never use?
TANSTAAFL.
(There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)
Reloman, As always you brng up some good points. Free public transit sounds great but who’s gonna pay for it?
I voted against measure F, throwing 50 plus million at LTCC. I was on on the losing side on that vote so my property taxes went up, and they are already high!
So how do we pay for “free” public transit without raising taxes? I wish I had an answer!
If anyone LTN land has an idea, feel free to send it in. OLS
I agree with reloman that grant funds awarded for capital improvements (such as for the Highway 50 Realignment Project/loop road and the Cross Lake Ferry Service) are designated funds for those purposes only and cannot just be deposited into an entity’s bank account for them to use in any manner they wish. If the TTD doesn’t apply for and use those grant funds for those specific purposes those grant monies go to some other entity for their capital improvement projects. It is the future the TTD is considering and I commend them for proactively preparing for the future transportation needs of the basin and how the increased population and visitors will be moved around and across the Lake while simultaneously reducing vehicle miles travelled. We need to look at the bigger picture, and perhaps if we had decent, reliable in-town bus service people wanting to take the Ferry across the Lake could take a bus to the Ferry Terminal thus eliminating the need for them to drive their car there and park.
I find it interesting that when the City operated the bus service it was never suggested by Mr. Davis to make that service no-fee but since the TTD took it over he continually suggests that they should make it no-fee. Park City, UT residents tax themselves for their no-fee bus service but judging by how this community feels about people not even paying a user fee for parking I can’t imagine they’d be inclined to tax themselves for no-fee public transportation. I would like to see the Tahoe4Tahoe group mobilize for this worthwhile cause and work with the TTD to get the Tahoe basin’s transportation designation changed from rural to urban so that grant funds for public transportation operations could be applied for and received. Then maybe a realistic discussion could occur about no-fee public transportation.
in the future nobody is going to ride the Bus, because the poor folks are not going to live here.
if you cannot see the writing on the wall I suggest that you look a little harder at the Big Picture.
Peter, I didn’t know the bus line dropped off at those points! Thats great! I’m also thinking it would be cool to expand some of the bus lines to corral, Mr. Toads. etc.
Seriously, I think tourists would use the bus system if they did a better job of incorporating recreation.
For the record, I wasn’t saying that the tourists use the bus system now. They don’t.
For once I agree with Dogula – there is no such thing as free bus service. Someone has to pay for it. “Getting a grant” seems like the Tahoe preferred way of doing things, instead of paying for services… we want other taxpayers to subsidize our services with ‘free ‘ grant money. Grow up. If you want a service, pay for it.
grant money would never be enough to cover a free bus service, the local citizens would have to vote to tax themselves to pay for it.
TTD has 15 projects around the lake but not any new bus systems. A ferry to connect the current north and south shore bus system. The cheapest way to connect is on land not water. Most projects TDD has do not sound fully funded or know where the funding is coming from. So the loop road at 70 million dollars plus the right of way in today’s money, what about 10 years from now? I am glad the city council did ask some tough questions of the TTD, not the softballs Angela always threw at the TTD.
Having had experience with the old Meyers route, make sure that the route makes sense, no rabbit tracks to the airport etc… Buses are not equipt with warp drive. If a bus is not reliable, it is worthless.