SLT trail talks stall; eminent domain likely
By Kathryn Reed
By mid-January South Lake Tahoe is expected to initiate eminent domain proceedings in order to build the El Dorado Beach to Ski Run bike trail.
The city doesn’t want to take the property, but instead is seeking the right-of-way to build the multi-use path.
Based on some of the funding coming with strings per the federal government there is a time line for the money to be spent. If the project is not finished by June 2018, the city could lose about $2.5 million in state and federal funding. The city might also be on the hook for refunding nearly $1 million in grants that have been spent on design and planning if the trail were not to be built.
Heidi’s in South Lake Tahoe believes losing a couple parking spaces and any change to the sign would hurt business. Photo/LTN
The bidding process cannot begin until the acquisitions are completed per federal stipulations. The city wants bid documents to be ready this spring.
City staff repeatedly said the clock is ticking and time is of the essence.
While the City Council this month gave the affected properties 45 days to resolve the issue without going down this path, at least two of the properties don’t appear to be willing to negotiate. This comes after the city began the dialogue more than a year ago.
Mary McCall, who owns a tiny slice of the needed property, told the electeds last week she feels pushed and coerced. She is a descendant of the pioneer Johnson family and said her family has given enough already.
A wedding chapel sits on the land. The city needs 126-square-feet of right-of-way. It has a value of $7,500.
She is worried about relocating the sign, wonders why businesses on the other side of the street aren’t affected, and said cyclists can ride in the street.
Don Rosenthal, who operates Heidi’s restaurant, was speaking on behalf of the property owner. However, with a 40-year lease, Rosenthal has a huge stake in what occurs on this parcel at the Bijou Center.
The current trail is dirt and tree roots in places. Photo/LTN
The city wants 966-square-feet of right-of-way; offering $15,000 for it. Safety, loss of parking and sign relocation are Rosenthal’s biggest worries.
The engineering consultant on the project said concessions have been made, such as moving the trail as close to Highway 50 as possible for these people.
McCall and Rosenthal told the council they would try to work things out. Outside the meeting room and out of earshot of the electeds they said the opposite.
The city also needs 1,300 square feet ($48,000) from Urbana Tahoe and 2,700 square feet ($10,250) from Tahoe Beach and Ski Club. The latter is not contentious, but requires eminent domain to satisfy the homeowners’ policy.
The city must offer fair market value, but cannot legally offer more. Property owners can take the city to court once eminent domain filings occur.
Descendants of the Johnson family don’t want to talk to the City of South Lake Tahoe?? Really!!
Go figure!
Thanks to the Johnson family for giving so much to this town. Somehow I don’t think Mary had much to do with that giving. Sometimes you gotta break some eggs to make the omelette. Get the right of way, unfortunately through eminent domain if necessary. This town needs to be better and this project is a good piece of the puzzle. The area around CVS and Heidi’s is atrocious, no landscaping and flow, just black Tarmac and random signage . Get it done. Thanks to the City for leaning in on this.
i realize way off topic, but wouldn’t it be cool to have movie theatres in or near the ‘Y’ again?
Is it just me or do those price figures seem really LOW?
I am all for the bikeway and eminent domain seems especially appropriate in this case, but…
Can’t get what you want so claim eminent domain? Sounds like they pushed for grants they didn’t quite qualify for and now are scrambling and willing to screw over a long time business. Way to get it done…not.
I think we all agree the town needs to look better (although I don’t think that applies to Heidi’s itself), but this is NOT the way they should go about it!
Ryan…How long have you lived here? The Johnson’s have a long and generous history with the City of South Lake Tahoe.
When you have the time check out SLT’s rotten treatment of this more than generous family.
The trampling on private property rights in this country has gone on for too long. If the owner does not want to sell, then move on. The last stealing of property resulted in a terrible loss of wealth to the city and owners of the hotels across from Harvey’s.
Why does the bike path have to be so wide? Most parts of town maybe 5 or 6 feet wide. At CVS are they going to put a stop sign on the bike path at each entrance to the center so someone does not get killed?
Have there been public hearings? Good point about width needed for bike lane. Have any real discussions about re-locating the sign and re-striping parking spaces at the County’s expense occurred? There must be a better way than eminent domain to execute this deal and keep an iconic sign/restaurant. A mix of old and new needs to be explored- not just tear-it down because it’s not in the vision of a few. Compromise is not always what everyone wants/gets but is a good tool.
A much needed upgrade to this area. If you want people to get out of the car and onto a bike, they need a safe place to ride and Hwy 50 is not safe.
Also we’re talking a tiny piece of property – 126 sq ft. The price seems reasonable.
Stop signs on bike paths don’t work – bicyclists just blow right through them. For example, I’ve never seen a bicycle stop at the ones in front of Tahoe Meadows.
eminent domain at Bijou is the start next it will be the Loop rd.
the Marvelous Makeover marches on.
Chief, if you want to live in a ghetto, that’s up to you. I’m sure your house is special.
The rest of us are tired of this 2 bit town in the middle of paradise. Get it done and ignore the whiners, landowners will be compensated as it is the cost of doing business sometimes with commercial property.
Atomic, I hope you never get to find out what it’s like for some government agency to decide that YOUR property would better serve some greater good, and that you will be given whatever amount THEY deem to be ‘market value’.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Robin- I think I have been here long enough to be called ‘a local’ and I am curious of the ‘rotten treatment’ you have referred to in your post as part of an informed citizenry.
I know eminent domain has been mishandled in the past, but also believe in sacrifice for the greater good. I just happen to also think the compensation seems really low.
I am all for a bike BOARDWALK with total right-of-way all the way through this town that stays plowed all winter!
and if any of you are truly serious about addressing the TRANSPORTATION CRISIS in this town….
here’s my extreme viewpoint: build a MONORAIL from Meyers to Stateline
We simply cannot expect more tourism dollars with our current infrastructure and our roads beyond capacity at peak times.
Umm… Eminent Domain was written into the US Constitution via the 5th Amendment…
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
So really, this is just a negotiation tactic on the price.
Ryan…How long have you been here is important to me because as we type I am working on a segment of South Tahoe history from 1965-1970. It is extremely exhausting, yes I confess to being old, to try to ‘splain’ certain things to certain people, especially on a comment board that relishes circular arguments that are headed up with all kinds of fake names and gotcha’s if you will.
You may e-mail me @ Discoverlktaho@hotmail.com or call 530-541-1155
Dog, it’s a slice of burning hell pavement out by a loud interstate highway. I think they’ll be fine.
Bike lanes, monorail, boardwalk: someone recently suggested here that we route Highway 50 through a tunnel under Stateline. How much should we tax ourselves to pay for it? We’re a city of fewer than 20,000 people. $5000 per year per person? $10,000 per year? Would we be willing to sell sell our bikes and paddleboards, or do without ski passes, in order to pay for these things? Or should they be paid for with a “grant” that comes from taxpayers in other states, who would have to do without things they want, to pay for our infrastucture?
All of them witches…………. loop road and this are going to happen. Valium up and go to sleep. There is nothing you can do….it’s all planned and you can’t change it….but if it makes you feel better…keep writing…. LOL…..
Eastbay: Stop signs on the bike path are needed at the 5 entrances of CVS to keep people from being killed. Bikes will learn to stop.
a tiny price to pay for a much needed bike path. the landowners comments that bikes can ride in the street isnt taking into account families and children who don’t want to ride on the highway, bike lane or not. guarantee the landowners end up liking the bike path because it will make their property look nicer and bring in more foot traffic. to all those who want to keep the city the same… look around and ask yourself; is this as good as we can do? keep improving SLT and make it worthy of the landscape that surrounds it.
Ryan, the Johnson family donated to the city a very large piece of land, the purpose of which was for the city to build a city hall. That didnt happen instead the city gave it to the county and the courthouse, jail and police station were put there, but no city hall. The Johnsons were P***ed and sued, but i guess they didnt have a good attorney when they donated the land so they lost.
Robin- I’m not even sure I was a dirty thought yet in the sixties, so I’m sorry but I can’t help with your article. I empathize with your thoughts pertaining to some on this message board and would look forward to reading your piece when it is finished.
Relo- I have heard bits and pieces about that story. Rumors, actually. Sounds interesting but sad for a well-intentioned family. I will try to learn more…
South Lake Tahoe has had a colorful past indeed, but I still love this town, this community with its cast of characters, this lake and these mountains. I am proud to call it home and to raise my family here, because all its imperfections somehow have made it the perfect place for me.
Now let’s build a MONORAIL so we never have to get in our cars again.. It’d be green and would attract tourism while alleviating traffic without needing to ever be plowed. It’s not like it is new technology here… Haven’t any of you ever been to Europe?
It’s all about the stinking tourists. We don’t need any more stinking tourists, they are like vermin in our neighborhoods and we can’t get rid of them or control them. They come into our neighborhoods and do as they please, walking across my property to get to another private lot so they can sled. They scream and yell, leave all the lights on 24 hrs, speed on the roads where it is only 25 and icy, don’t come prepared for the snow with their city tires and no chains and complain when the Sierra Nevada Mountains aren’t like their paved and lighted towns. Tell them to stay home ! We don’t want you anymore !
And this town will be fine without them.
Couldn’t agree more Steven. Bravo!
And Ryan will you SHUT UP about the damn monorail? You’ve got to be “special”.
Ryan…Not an article!:) A book with a prequel 1960-1965 and a sequel 1970-1975.
Del E Webb built the Sahara Tahoe here and it opened July of 1965 at the same time The Tahoe Nugget opened.
Del E Webb was from Fresno, Ca and built a casino in Vegas for Bugsy Siegel.
The real ‘fun’ began then, the Mob officially moved into South Lake Tahoe, The Summer of 1965.
Steven and Liberule, if you two don’t realize that tourism is the economic engine that drives our community maybe you should take your hateful blinders off.
Anyone that thinks that there will be some new “industry” that will take over tourism as our main economic driver is simply naive or just plain ignorant. We ARE a resort town!
Hi Liberule-
Glad you heard me, hater! I win. And, yeah, my momma says I’m special ;p
She’s also a local in this town :)
If the topic is transportation or addressing redevelopment, I am proud to be a lone voice calling for change. I believe we have a TRANSPORTATION CRISIS in this town, meaning that our current infrastructure simply does not meet the needs of locals and tourists at its current state. Meanwhile, everyone is dreaming up more ways to bring more tourists….
I, for one, believe we need a clean, green, reliable source of transportation here in the basin. I also think people HATE driving around here in Tahoe and they would much rather leave their cars behind… which is why we must consider alternatives and I offer my contribution as a single voice in this town, loud and clear:
MONORAIL
Robin- your book sounds fascinating and I would be very interested to learn more!
Biggerp- I agree that our local economy is built upon tourism, but I also feel not enough has been done in order to diversify our local economy.
Ryan…How old are you and what type business are you in or interested in? I do know local people that you may be interested in talking to about the ‘bigger’ picture here in Tahoe.
The entire picture from real business people that have owned and operated their business’ here for years.
There are a select few that are honest observant and do not need to resort to name calling and foul language:)
to get their point across.
@Robin Smith-I am not sure if you love or hate this town. I am friends with quite a few people who lived in Tahoe in the mid-60’s and 70’s and they loved the atmosphere then. Sure mobsters may have been here but that did not affect everyone. From what I have read elsewhere, you are not and were not fond of this town:
“This town is full of creeps and every description there is of NASTY customers. N0t a glowing endorsement for a destination resort N0w is it.”
“South Lake Tahoe Ca/Nv A Hot Bed Of Cold Cases”
“I was there, 1960’s Lake Tahoe. N0t paying attention to much but staying alive.”
“This place is N0t real…Never has been.”
https://welshchappie.wordpress.com/2014/08/23/lawrence-larry/comment-page-1/
In all seriousness. Look up monorail failure rate. Higher than 90%. There have been countless spoofs on monorails and their extreme failure rates/money wasting/uselessness.
Liberule- I’m not sure if your negative rhetoric qualifies as a spoof, but many may think so.
I am very much open for a public debate on the merits of light rail here in the basin, in case you haven’t noticed :)
Will you be putting forth some reasonable solutions to the transportation crisis here in Tahoe? Or are you simply a naysayer?
Until then, I would like to leave you with one thought:
MONORAIL
Axel….”Sure mobsters may have been in this town but that did not affect everyone.”
It sure did Axle:)
You are definitely going to LOVE this book…murders and sex and drugs and yeah it just keeps getting better;)..did I mention MILLIONS and MILLIONS of $DOLLARS$
Ryan: my solution is for you to go back to Irvine. One less flatlander know it all in town.
Hold your breath for the monorail bud. It will NEVER HAPPEN.
Lib- We already knew you had the interwebs, but I am flattered you have done some homework on me as well. You must have a lot of time on your hands, huh?
Anyways, go on being a naysayer and I will continue to be proactive in addressing the TRANSPORTATION CRISIS in Tahoe and we will speak again, so let’s try to be civil.
I have lived in Tahoe for over 20 years and have chosen to buy a home, start a business, and raise my family here. I care about this community and that includes you, Libs. I think you can do better than being just a naysayer, but I am humble enough to realize I may be wrong.
What are your thoughts on addressing the TRANSPORTATION CRISIS in Tahoe?
I say MONORAIL :) What say you?
PEACE!
Looks like one persons “gondola” is another persons “monorail.”
Ryan, you know that little search bar under the google logo? Yeah, that thing.
Anyway Ryan, you honestly seem like a good dude and my sarcasm comes across harsh sometimes. I apologize for being a jerk.
In my opinion there is no “transportation crisis” in this town. It is simply a small town and has it’s growth limits. When tourons are here it gets crowded. But it only gets to a certain point, because we are a small town and only so many can fit and be accommodated etc.
I personally think that some people are trying to expand this town past it’s limits and turn it into big city. It’s not that and never should be. Lake tahoe can’t be everything to everyone. A monorail would be extremely out of place in a small mountain town. Not to mention my previously stated failure rate which is extremely high.
Who’s going to pay for this monorail? This town is extremely economically depressed. I can’t fathom most people in the area agreeing to tax increases for a monorail.
Serious question Ryan. Would you be part of the people SELLING the monorail? Your repetitive catch phrases sound like a sales pitch. “Transportation crisis”!
My solution? We all get hoverboards. The kind in Back to the future. Those things are rad.
Rock, nice! :-)
liberule-
No, I’m not Lyle Lanley.. (Simpson reference below) http://youtu.be/ZDOI0cq6GZM
The facts support that there definitely is a TRANSPORTATION CRISIS in this town and all around Tahoe. From the most obvious issue of auto traffic being the largest source of fine sediment and pollution to our lake and forests all the way down to the inconvenient fact it takes 15min to drive the 5miles across town (if you are lucky)
A growing number of visitors and tourists alike simply do not want to travel by car in Tahoe, because it is not a nice experience for many reasons (bad traffic, weather, winding roads in disrepair, not well lit, inadequate signage, it’s not green, blight, etc)
Our public transportation is inadequate. It is rarely on time as it is subject to the road conditions and traffic. It is also not a nice experience for the same reasons as driving.
Although it’s nice to think of ourselves as a small mountain town, the truth is we are fast becoming a global destination. The growth will not stop and tourism isn’t going to decline. Our transportation system at present is inadequate at current population levels to save our lake and serve our communities and I’m not even speaking of the regular influx of tourists. When you include them, it is more accurate to say our infrastructure is grossly inadequate.
How is a MONORAIL a solution to our TRANSPORTATION CRISIS?
-powered by sustainable energy
-provide pedestrian over crossings on Hwy 50
-tourists, locals, cyclists, and shift workers could rely on its scheduling
-not subject to weather or traffic delays
-low impact lighting for Hwy 50
-the ability to get around reliably in Tahoe without a car
When someone talks about being for the loop road, ask them how that affects our TRANSPORTATION CRISIS, since the loop road will alleviate traffic conditions in that part of town and make way for more development which puts more strain on our grossly inadequate transportation system…
I’m against any more development here in the basin until the TRANSPORTATION CRISIS is addressed.
So if they want more people in our town, I want a shiny new MONORAIL :) so I don’t have to drive on the roads with any of them.
Ryan- I see what you did there. Clever.
Yes I can only think of Lyle lanley when I hear that word.
Seriously though… When I need to get to the Y do you really think in a billion years I would ever: drive my car to some “monorail parking lot”, pay to park, pay for a monorail ride, haul my groceries back on a monorail (providing it stops at the stores I want to shop at), wait until said monorail comes back to pick me up, drops me back off at the monorail parking lot so I can get back in my car to drive back to my neighborhood. LOL! All so I can travel 3 MILES?
OR I could just drive my car there. Pretty simple.
Sounds like you don’t actually think it’s a good idea either after you last paragraph. More of a swipe at the city (if you wanna expand I want a shiny new monorail heh heh)
Whatever. It’s a moot point. Simply will NEVER HAPPEN. If it does I’ll eat my hat.
Ryan- I played now it’s your turn. What say you about the POLICE CRISIS in this town. We have officers that bang high school gang member girls and hide their guns. There are officers selling meth. There are drunk driving officers (this week), there are officers shooting unarmed kids for crawling out of Windows (love how that was swept under the rug because he was black).
We absolutely have a POLICE CRISIS if you ask me.
This in no way is meant to diminish the fine officers who work for our town. Many of them are top notch professionals who probably hate having these bad apples on their team. Time to weed out some of the bad eggs if you ask me.
Everyone needs to clean their own house.
If EVERYONE, police, school, City council persons and on and on clean your own houses or the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL and when the Feds move in you will be sorry
liberule- forgive me, but can I assume you have never lived anywhere which has had a tram, light rail, or monorail?
I mean no offense, but your take on using the monorail is comical. People would walk or ride their bikes to the monorail on plowed sidewalks and bike paths (possibly even cross-country ski GASP!) and then again for the rest of their travel. People would use folding carts and actually carry their groceries in bags like they do in places where public transit works (which is in many more places than the overstated failures I’ve found in my limited research)
You see, our town is actually laid out perfectly for a MONORAIL already, since it is built around Hwy 50….. It is plain silly to think you need a car to go to the grocery store, but you DO need a car at present in this town because you have to use the highway to get anywhere.
As for waiting, I guess you missed the point about reliability and scheduling. People would use it more because it would be more reliable than driving, since weather and traffic would not be an issue.
Again, we have a TRANSPORTATION CRISIS and nobody is talking about it. Our infrastructure is inadequate at current population levels to protect our lake, air, and forests and people do not like driving in Tahoe for many reasons that have no solutions at this point. Nobody should be talking about more development and increased tourism without addressing the TRANSPORTATION CRISIS first, plain and simple.
I support the public’s right to more bike paths and sidewalks.
I support the public’s right to have the bike paths and sidewalks cleared of all snow DAILY.
Plain and simple: YES, we all deserve a shiny, new MONORAIL if development increases. We need relief from the traffic and pollution it will inevitably bring.
It is simply not right for a few to profit at the expense of an entire town’s right to coexist peacefully with its visitors and natural environment. If they want to bring more people, we need better infrastructure to support them and offset the negative effects. Do you get it now? It is not a swipe at the city, but a reality!
As I’ve said before, go on being a naysayer and thinking it’ll never happen, calling it a moot point, blah blah blah etc., but the TRANSPORTATION CRISIS is not going to get better and, in fact, will only get worse as the population and tourism increases.
As for a police crisis, I try to stay on point so I’ll leave that for another thread…
MONORAIL – the only viable solution to our current TRANSPORTATION CRISIS in the Lake Tahoe basin.
Fair enough. We all have our opinions.
Here’s the problem. You’re the only one who seems to think it’s a good idea. I can sleep easy knowing your scheme will NEVER happen ( I have a CAPS LOCK TOO)
And yes. I stayed briefly in the Los Angeles area. They have the metro link. A pee smelling haven for criminals, thugs, pickpockets, drug users and aspiring rappers to freestyle in your face on, gangs, Prostitutes etc. lovely.
I have family in San Diego I visit often. They have the trolley there. See above. ^^^^^.
So yeah forgive me if I’m not looking for that in SLT. if you think I’m gonna ride my bike to some monorail stop to get my groceries you aren’t living in the same reality I am. Peace.
Ryan I think that a Monorail or another type of light rail system should at least be looked onto here at the Lake. People who visit here from other areas such as Sacramento, San Francisco, San Diego,New York and other places in the United States are used to mass transit and would use it here if it was available. I have used the Trolly in San Diego and it is safe and great way to get around. Bart in the Bay Area takes a large amount of cars off the roads and a lot of people use it. If you watch the news from Sacramento the light rail system there keeps adding more and more lines due to rider demands. Ryan is not alone in his out of the box (car) thinking. There are more of us out there that feel the same way. If a real mass transit system was available here I would use it on a daily basis.
libs- Doesn’t SoCal seem like a society that waited too long to implement alternative transportation to you? This is the point I am trying to make.
We must not allow any further discussion of development in the Tahoe basin until our TRANSPORTATION CRISIS is addressed.
And, libs, FYI: your reality is subject to change ;p
My Thoughts- thanks! Some say I may be a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. Really though, it’s nice to know I’m not the only one sometimes :) NorCal is bringing efficient light rail closer to Tahoe all the time, so I’ll be looking to the mountains of Europe for more evidence to support the viability of a MONORAIL in the Tahoe basin if development continues.