Opinion: Modern sagebrush rebels recycle old Western fantasies
By Paul Larmer, High Country News
Ammon and Ryan Bundy, sons of scofflaw Nevada rancher Clive Bundy, appear to have made an ambitious New Year’s resolution: Force the federal government, which has managed more than half of the American West’s lands for the past century, to relinquish them, at gun point if necessary, to the locals.
Over the weekend, the Bundy brothers and a group of a few dozen or so militiamen and their sympathizers took over the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in eastern Oregon and declared it a safe haven for well-armed “patriots” who oppose federal land management.
The group is demanding that the federal government release local ranchers Dwight Hammond and his son, Stephen, who are scheduled to report to federal prison this week to finish serving time for intentionally setting fires in 2001 and 2006, burning up hundreds of acres of public lands. They also want the government to hand over the 1.7 million-acre Malheur National Forest. According to OregonLive, Ryan Bundy said, “many would be willing to fight — and die, if necessary — to defend what they see as constitutionally protected rights for states, counties and individuals to manage local lands.”
Domestic terrorism, period.
Terrorized by these guys are you? Have you ever read the definition for terrorism?
I wish I could claim credit but it was someone on FARK who referred to them as the “Hayseed Terrorists.”
Aren’t you ever curious that when a government worker rebels it’s called a strike, bullying, racism or a union tactic? When the average public person has finally been pushed far enough by the powers to be sometimes they have no recourse or feel they have no recourse but to take the law into it’s hands. Read the constitution Amendments III, VIII actually you should read the whole thing along with Patrick Henry’s “Give me liberty or give me death” speech. I am not saying I condone what is taking place but I do stand behind their rights to protest peacefully which they seem to be doing for now. My opinion only.
Please read this letter from the US Attorney. It has quite a bit of information in it.
And terrorism is a pretty strong accusation. Please look up the definition before throwing it out there.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2660399/Statement-USattorney.pdf
I don’t consider the takeover of publicly owned property by a bunch of right-wing religious/political yahoos, armed to the teeth with military style weapons, threatening violence against anyone that attempts to confront them to be “peaceful protesting”.
I say turn off the power and water to this wildlife refuge and isolate these extremists who arrived with virtually zero supplies for a “years long” occupation and arrest them when they are forced out.
Get over the romance of ranchers or any body else getting in the face of federal and/or state governments by arming themselves, putting on their cowboy clothes, and using intimidation to change policy. If we all had our heads that far up, you couldn’t step out your front door without being shot at. This is a nation of laws and there’s ways to change laws and this isn’t it.
Apparently few if any of you has ever had your property directly threatened by wildfire caused by arson, I have. I consider it terrorism, sorry. And that’s just the Hammonds, and they’re rightfully doing time for arson. Terrorism wasn’t considered in the charges although they had endangered hunters and firefighters in the area when their fire got out of control and moved to public lands during a red flag, no burn, time period, not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Then there’s the morons from out of state, the Bundys that the local sheriff and many if not the majority of locals don’t want there. These clowns aren’t doing anybody any favors and the only reason they haven’t been forcefully removed is because the federal government is treating them with kid gloves and letting them throw their tantrum so as to not create another Ruby ridge or Waco. I’m always amused that gun huggers seem to think the government doesn’t have the ability to put a rocket in their pocket anytime they please.
So let the boys play and maybe they’ll get bored, I know I am, hopefully nobody gets hurt.
Domestic terrorism;
>Involves acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law; check
>Appear intended to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; check
>Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S. check
Involves acts dangerous to human life:
I have stood in that same building dozens of times, with my shotgun waiting to go duck hunting. I am also allowed to be in that building with a rifle or pistol. It is a wildlife refuge supported primarily by user fees from hunters, a tax (which most of us support) on ammo and some general fund money. The majority of the support for the area comes from us hillbillies.
So how is standing in a building where you are allowed to have a gun endangering anyone?
When its hippies its called a “sit in” now this is domestic terrorism.
Moral, your really taking a leap when you go from duck hunting to “taking over” a National wildlife refuge heavily armed. Nice try though.
Please post pictures of heavily armed “hippies” at a “sit in”, this I’d love to see.
Do you know the whole story? I don’t, but apparently these two Hammonds have been threatening the forest service managers since 1986. They have been grazing cattle over reforested areas including a creek. The forest service asked they keep out of the creek and reforested area, which the Hammonds did not. The Hammonds also set two fires, the second one is the one the Hammonds were convicted of, because there were volunteers fighting a fire nearby.
So threatening federal officials with the gun is part of holing up in a refuge? No! It’s domestic terrorism when you threaten people, these clowns are not out there with shotguns to hunt ducks.
NO I’m not a hippy, and not against guns, I’m against lawlessness and stupid delusional entitlement.
Whip is spot on…Whip it Good!
Some of you comment without reading the facts. The Hammonds have been convicted of arson and have appealed all the way to the Supreme Court and lost. They do not support the Bundy’s actions. The refuge is closed for the winter so nobody should be there. They are domestic terrorists because they are provoking the Feds to take action. Some of them have warrants out for their arrests and have vowed not to be taken alive. So, yes they are a violent bunch. These people are far from patriots and in fact are traitors. This will not end well for them.
Thanks to ‘The Rev’ for this informative article-cute puppies can become overwhelming for inexperienced owners
Photograph all the vehicles and license plates. Close the road into the place. Allow egress only–no one including press allowed to enter. Turn off all water, gas and electricity. When the comforts and publicity go away, likely the village idiots will leave too.
These people want the land to be turned over to cattlemen, loggers and miners–a far cry from returning the land to the “people”. Imagine how the land would look if they had their way–and forget about wildlife diversity!
“Tim Davis
14 hrs
i came to Burns Oregon to find out the truth…Now, im just laying here alone in my room taking in all I’ve learned ..what I can tell you is the media like we all have come to expect is lying…from my view anyway….as far back as 100miles where ever I ask…who ever I ask…all support the Hammond’s and the Patriots !! as of yet I have not found a single soul that live in fear of the Patriots nor think the Hammond’s guilty of anything…not a single one…but I did find that fear the media speak of so fast in regard to good men just trying to save our Nation…but that fear was not found against Patriots….I had Americans …right here on American soil ..telling me of their support for the Bundy brothers and the Patriots that stand with them….in hushed voices…fearful that someone from the BLM might hear…wrap that around your minds people….a whole town bullied by the BLM! behold reality ! right here in the good ole USA…Americans speaking in hushed tones in public places…afraid of who in our gov of power might see…how did we allow this? how did we let it fall so far.”
Wow, Dog how many right wing rags did you mull over before you decided to quote that drivel?
How about this, the Bundy’s are some of the biggest hypocrites in society today. They take government money, and grazing discount fees from the federal government all while fighting them. Ammon Bundy has a SBA in the amount of $530,000, which he may or may not have paid back. The Bundy’s pay about $1.35 for each head of cattle to graze on BLM land as opposed to about $20. a head on private land. They take advantage of the federal governments “emergency feed program” which costs tax payers about $26 million for the eleven western states which only provide 15% of the beef accounted for in this country. There is also the animal damage control project which helps protect all ranchers livestock, which costs this country about $22million just in the western states. If that isn’t taking a government handout or depending on the government for your business what is?
Now lets get to the fact that no one wants this protest and no one is speaking in hushed voices. The Hammonds don’t want them there, nor does the sheriff, or most of the people who live there. No one is fearful of the BLM, i am more fearful of a bunch of armed loons who think they are patriots and have a right to “OUR” land. They’re domestic terrorists and you should be appalled at their lawlessness.
Yep, it is way past the time for US Marshals to go out and ARREST SOME PEOPLE in Burns Oregon.
Whip, was I heavily armed when I had a shotgun and pistol at my side?
The point is nobody has brandished a weapon against anyone. That accusation is completely unfounded. Having firearms in a building where you are allowed to have firearms….but not pointing the guns anywhere but in a safe direction is not terrorism.
They are guilty of trespass and should be charged.
I also think they are guilty of stupid…but unfortunately that is not a crime.
I think Whip and Big Fish have this figured out. Its such a joke that these ranchers, farmers and others making their living off property owned by all Americans are further subsidized by the other programs the government offers. In addition to the subsidies mentioned above, the government will kill just about anything out there that irritates the “ranchers” and taxpayers pay for that too. Its one of the reasons wolves are almost extinct in some areas. If they weren’t able to survive by destroying public land, they’d all be on food stamps.
Moral, let me see if I understand your logic. I walk into a Gas Station with a weapon. I do not point it at anybody while I demand to take over the Gas Station along with my “associates.” I say that I (we) will only use my (our) weapon(s) IF, I (we) am (are) threaten by other people at the Gas Station. I then say that “God” told me to take over the Gas Station because the Gas Station was charging to much for gas; in front of News Cameras.
This scenario is “ok” Moral?
Rock, now how many darn gas stations include a sign in for the number of birds you intend to shoot that day? These people are in a building where it is absolutely positively allowed to have an open firearm. So your analogy makes no sense. They didnt go down to the BLM office head quarters where you are probably right, they would have gotten themselves and others killed. They chose the right place.
They never pointed a gun at anyone, and, and this is important, they never threatened to use a gun against anyone. Okay so they are stupid. I hunt that area for geese and ducks. I absolutely recommend people go to Steens Mountain….it is an amazing wilderness and the people in the Lake Basin are salt of the earth cowboys. Like real honest to goodness cowboys. They dont want these trouble makers there either.
But, nobody has done anything but open carry a firearm on a refuge where you are allowed to carry a firearm. Its trespass, but its nothing more than that.
Often those who scream ‘tyranny’ the loudest are doing so because they just plain don’t get their way. I don’t feel safer or more American when ANYONE has to run a gauntlet of grey haired ex-biker-looking neonazi thugs in camo and wearing bulletproof vests stomping around as they get out of, into and mill around them thar pickup trucks out in the middle of wherever(I seen it on the news this morning) in order to get into a federal building. For anyone to suggest that these militiamen are just innocently carrying their weapons cuz ‘they’re hunters and that’s what hunters do’-(my hunter friends use shotguns for ducks and geese) whilst feigning outrage at the gub’mint overreach aren’t fooling anyone.
If they don’t want to live in the United States of America and follow our laws, they are free to run for public office and work to change things, or start a petition to get it on the ballot. You know, like we do in a ‘Democracy’. Or they are free to leave. Besides…the America they say they want has some interesting twists….tracking to the Far White Christian Right:
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/bundy-boys-bizarre-anti-constitutional-agenda?akid=13866.1140786.c_8FAU&rd=1&src=newsletter1048632&t=6
‘Checkpoints, arrests, and one dead at Oregon refuge’
It’s about time these wannabes were arrested. Maybe the remainder of them can avoid being killed like the one who had directly threatened violence if confronted and apparently backed it up by popping the top on a can of stupid.
These idiots should have left when asked by the sheriff and the locals that didn’t want them there.
Wonder how much these idiots have cost tax payers.
Common criminals wrapping themselves in the flag of my country. Fear them? How about just disgusted by them?
“When we have a group of Americans assembled according to their first amendment rights, on the most sacred land, Public Land, to protest the abuse of a non elected gov. bureau, and the gov. answer is to kill one of them, we then have a real problem here in America. These folks were not on city, county, state land, they are on Public Land. Where better to oppose an unfair government action. Only in old Germany was the ss given the authority to kill protesters. Our president wants to overthrow the gov of Syria for killing protesters. What the hell is the difference? Where the hell do the agents get their authority to forcibly break up this constitutionally legal protest and violate their civil rights, and therefore all our civil rights. This is a violent attack on the first amendment to our bill of rights.”
Andy Sullivan
Dog U. They are squatters on MY LAND! I have a 1/320,000,000 interest in that land so get OFF!
If Andy what’s his name pulls a gun on an officer during a traffic stop I’m pretty damn sure he’d be killed too. Sometimes being guilty of stupid IS a crime.