Partying tourists confronted with reality that South Lake Tahoe wants quiet neighborhoods
South Tahoe code enforcement officer Danny Loyola confirms details with dispatch. Photo/Kathryn Reed
By Kathryn Reed
It’s about 12:30am Saturday and a distinct conversation can be heard coming from the back yard of the next street. It’s a group of about 10 who are up from the Bay Area partying. They are here for this long weekend.
They are going home with a $270 citation for excessive noise at a vacation home rental.
They claim they had no idea they needed to keep things down starting at 10pm. Danny Loyola, enforcement code officer for South Lake Tahoe, informs them excessive noise anytime of day won’t be tolerated.
In this case, a neighbor backing the Dedi Street rental called the police about the noise.
Loyola, who works Thursday-Sunday from 4pm-2am, is the man responsible for keeping the peace between loud out-of-towners and locals.
The woman who called about this house on Sept. 5 said she was woken up from a deep sleep. She tried conversing with the visitors over the fence. They reportedly told her they would keep it down. They didn’t. They were “obnoxious” according to the caller, so she called SLTPD.
Loyola drove around the neighborhood to gauge the sounds from various vantage points. The vacationers were loud. It wasn’t just muffled sounds.
No sign was on the house designating it as a vacation home rental (VHR), which is mandated on the permit. Loyola makes a note of this.
For every encounter he has on a shift Loyola fills out a disturbance advisement card. It gets placed in the permittee’s file so there is a record of how many times enforcers are called to a particular house and for what reason. Noise is the primary reason the enforcers are called out at night. Garbage and parking are bigger issues for the day shift enforcers.
At each call Loyola asks to speak with the person who rented the house. In this case it was an intoxicated woman. She’s coherent to a point. She understands they were loud and that this is a bad thing. However, she seems confused as to why she is getting the citation. Loyola is patient with her. Her two male friends try to explain it.
Loyola had called for backup from a sworn officer. It just felt better. He goes into these situations not knowing who will be on the other side of the door. Most times he confronts people who have been drinking. His radio, flashlight and pepper spray are his “weapons” if things were to go sideways. That’s why when it’s possible, an officer with more firepower is by his side. More important, it’s just another body.
South Lake Tahoe is taking a more proactive approach to enforcing the rules about vacation home rentals. This includes having people dedicated to patrolling the streets during the likely days and hours when guests are more prone to misbehaving.
On this particular Friday-Saturday shift, Loyola receives just two calls. The other is on San Jose Avenue. From the street the voices are much more subdued compared to the other house. They are from Ohio and say they have no idea about the rule concerning noise.
Everyone seems to be out of the hot tub by the time Loyola leaves. He issues them a warning and says he hopes not to see them for the rest of the weekend. They agree.
Loyola has been much busier on previous weekends compared to this last long weekend of summer. When he’s not on a VHR call he is doing code enforcement of a different kind. This includes finding abandoned vehicles, cars parked on city streets without current registration and other infractions, as well as making sure all is well at the city parking garage at Heavenly Village. He also is another pair of eyes for law enforcement for anything suspicious that might be going on that falls outside of his scope of work.
I am not against vacation home rentals! However, I think part of the rental agreement MUST include a statement about noise after 10pm, garbage behavior/handling, and parking, so that renters know these are local ordinances and they would be subject to fines (maybe taken out of their deposit). When they sign the rental agreement, they acknowledge these obligations.
Partying tourists and locals alike need to be clamped down on! Loud noies and cars all over the street past midnight should be halted.Dogs barking at all the noise of people whooping it up till sunrise while the rest of us tryin’ to get some sleep before the next days work.Good luck getting sleep! Old Long Skiis
People are noisy. If you want absolute quiet, go find a place out in the wilds of Minnesota.
Even regular neighborhoods outside the basin are noisy. People start up their diesel trucks to go to work at 5 am. . . kids screech around on Friday night after the game. The next door neighbors have a domestic dispute.
Sure, I get it. Excess disruption ought to be dealt with. But it sounds like an awful lot of people in this town are forgetting what pays Tahoe’s bills, and they’re turning into crochety old farts.
Get off my lawn.
(P.S. the only time I ever called on a vacation rental was back at the turn of the century in the State Streets. Their bonfire was leaping up a couple feet above the 6′ fence and they were shooting bottle rockets onto the shake roofs. That warranted a cop call, I thought.)
Move to Minnesota, for someone without a dog in this fight, you’ve said you don’t live in California, You are wrong. I have lived here since the 70’s, I will call the police anytime I am disturbed by VHR’s. It wasn’t this bad 20 years ago, but with these new multi-family VHR’s built around me in the last decade, people think it’s free reign to do whatever they like in Tahoe. Not the case anymore, I am getting tired of it. So Dog, for someone who doesn’t live in the city (your words), and all the negativity you spout here, Maybe you’re the one who needs to move to Minnesota.
It’s about time that the city finally started enforcing its own rules. Several years ago the vacation rental permit fee was increased to pay for a dedicated officer for this but failed to remain in effect.
I AM against vacation rentals in residential neighborhoods !! We all bought our homes assuming that R1 zoning meant “residential”.
Vacation Rentals are Tourist Accommodations and belong in areas that are zoned for this commercial activity.
I propose we have a new ordinance that states if more than 50% of a street sign a petition to not have vacation rentals within shouting distance from their street – the vacation rentals aren’t allowed !!
It has to come to this – we can’t let Realtors making commissions dictate how we live in our communities !
I guess the City benefits from vaca rentals, the tourist business’s benefit from them as well, which I guess is a good thing, though us plain folk will never know the perks on vaca rentals. Fortunately I have only one vaca rental two houses down, only once was the sheriff called. So I consider myself lucky, I know they can be quite loud and out of control thanks to booze and drugs that is usually the culprit in most cases.
First off, this is a very complex issue because of all the people and money involved. People’s livelihoods are on the line and an entire cottage industry has sprung up around VHRs…
But people’s lives and families are being affected in their homes.
Zoning laws create boundaries between industrial, commercial, and residential zones for good reasons.
SLT hotels and motels are in direct competition with VHRs. These properties line our highway and contribute to visitors’ first and lasting impressions of South Lake Tahoe. Increased revenue would encourage competition amongst defining properties in this town, no?
Imagine a highway lined with boutique mountain hotels and motels with sustainable income from increased demand. What if they had an attractive quality that made locals proud and made South Shore stand out as having the best amenities available anywhere?
More fees, fines and code enforcement will not solve the problems that come when you allow large numbers of tourists (many of them disrespectful of those of us that actually live here and desire peace and quiet)to overwhelm our neighborhoods. With almost 2000 VHRs permitted and who knows how many operating illegally, we now have zoning laws that are worthless. The voters should find a way to decide this issue because our elected leaders haven’t found a viable solution. Many communities in California have outright banned nightly rentals in residential neighborhoods, while SLT continues to issue permits. This is not acceptable.
It is true that tourism is important to our economy, we just need to redirect our visitors to the tourist core areas we built for them.
In my neighborhood it is the full-time residents that make the most noise. I just love how the neighbors put their howling dogs out at 6am and then leave for work. Or the ones that line-up all their outside yard and grounds-keeping for the weekend then get up and leave -so the neighbors can enjoy it. We all love power equipment noise all weekend, right? People only care about themselves- whether it’s renting a vacation home or using their own property. Civility is dead.
Bigfishy1
Good post !
Like it or not, your friendly local realtor and their contractor friends are very responsible for this VHR nightmare we have.
Permit fees and fines are still not high enough. The VHR’s charge a lot of money for rent at the neighbors expense. Fines should be $500 minimum and if issued to a renter, it should also be issued to the owner/management company. The owner/management is ultimately responsible for what goes on and cannot be let off the hook because they “told” the renters the rules. The owner/management has to be actively enforcing the rules and the only way to get them to enforce the rules is to take money out of their pockets when they fail to enforce, period ! Owners and management have been skating by without being held accountable and that is baloney !
Increased demand? by whose definition? Even on holiday weekends not all the hotels, motels, timeshares, vaca rentals are 100% occupied. I agree withe Payne -Zoning districts create boundaries between industrial, commercial, and residential zones for good reasons. Enforcement is the issue. I live in a neigborhood with a couple of rentals. Lights on 24-7, barking dogs (not their fault being left all day in a strange place)cars parked on side of road and even in private residents driveways. The rental agency or homeowner should also be fined if they do not provide information about noise rules, bears, trash, etc.
Cry babies…. Get over it
The problem is now this law spills into the zoning areas of industrial streets , what about local businesses? Are they to remain quiet all times during the day , what about the highway what If you lived near the road , it’s noisey, can’t call on the road and issue a citation or lived by a local bizz or the refuge area , industrial zones should be left to to there work , if you live by a noisy zone , to bad , should of moved to Myers.
Shenja
I paid a lot of money to BUY my house in a peaceful, quiet neighborhood that is now over run with partying tourist bastards. Don’t tell me to get over it ! Up Yours !
This is the type of enforcement that should have been put in place decades ago.
More fees, fines and code enforcement will not solve the problems that come when you allow large numbers of tourists (many of them disrespectful of those of us that actually live here and desire peace and quiet)to overwhelm our neighborhoods. With almost 2000 VHRs permitted and who knows how many operating illegally, we now have zoning laws that are worthless. The voters should find a way to decide this issue because our elected leaders haven’t found a viable solution. Many communities in California have outright banned nightly rentals in residential neighborhoods, while SLT continues to issue permits. This is not acceptable.
It is true that tourism is important to our economy, we just need to redirect our visitors to the tourist core areas we built for them.
Gotta agree with Fishy, Toxic, Payne, and Steven.
“excessive noise anytime of day won’t be tolerated.”
Not just after 10pm
Cautious, Do you work in the lodging industry? Just wondering how you would know how full they are. I know that this year almost every property (except the dumps) every weekend were close to full. I would have 8 to 10 people drive up and ask for rooms after i was already full. These people would tell me they had already been to a bunch of properties already. And not just on busy weekends.
More fees, fines and code enforcement will not solve the problems that come when you allow large numbers of tourists (many of them disrespectful of those of us that actually live here and desire peace and quiet)to overwhelm our neighborhoods. With almost 2000 VHRs permitted and who knows how many operating illegally, we now have zoning laws that are worthless. The voters should find a way to decide this issue because our elected leaders haven’t found a viable solution. Many communities in California have outright banned nightly rentals in residential neighborhoods, while SLT continues to issue permits. This is not acceptable.
It is true that tourism is important to our economy, we just need to redirect our visitors to the tourist core areas we built for them.
I hope they will be flexible with change to the officers hours, cause not much is usually going on at 4pm, but a lot can start up after 2am when they come back to the rental house after a night of partying, to continue the party at the house.
With 19% of our revenues, plus 14% sales tax i have to suck it up and tolerate
unruly guests. We have them on both sides of us now and gets it gets rowdy with the outside deck partiers. As much as they bug me a lot my work is availible because of them. It is Tahoe nowadays.
Our policy is not to call police unless violence or drunk driving is happening.
The VRBO rental owners without an agency seem to be the issue with 10-14 people at once. No matter how good a rental owner is, noise happens.
I’ve asked my neighbors to give me their email as 1st line of complaint instead of police or VR hotline. I am hoping if i make direct complaint they just will not rent to same guests again.
Bottom line is tourists support us here. It sucks at times but it beats living elsewhere.
So if you are a VRBO or VR owner please orientate your guests to lighten up on us locals. Post some rules and remind them in your contracts to not be drunken idiots:>
All rental agreements should have the rules attached and initialed by the renter.
A sign permanently posted in the rental should be required if it is not already a requirement.
The owners or rental brokers should share some responsibility in the problems, and I mean get fined…if they cannot show an initialed contract signed by the renter showing they in fact were informed of the rules and regs.
Brokers/owners should have a clause in the rental contract that provides for forfeit of the deposit if a citation is issued for violations.
Lets face it, these noisy renters would not act like this in their own home. They know there would be a visit from their own hometown cops. That is why they come here to raise hell, drink, party and enjoy the lake area.
With effective enforcement like described in the article, the word will get around fairly quickly, I believe and the number of problems will diminish.
On a personal basis, I do believe that zoning should be amended officially, and define the areas where VHR activity would be allowed. Permanent rentals equal residential in my book, but party rentals do not.
New ideas and new practices either have to go with the existing rules, or the rules need to be amended.
How about a vote…put neighborhood R1 zoning vacation rentals on a city ballot like the parking meters.
Man would that be fun!!!
To ask a related question that I believe needs an answer;
How many of these vacation rental homes are adequately insured? Or insured at all?
I know that my home insurance coverage DOES NOT allow me to rent the house on a short term or permanent basis without an endorsement allowing the practice, and payment of extra premiums.
My guess is that the rental brokers and probably the owners conveniently ignore this when they sign up or rent out a vacation rental property.
Does anayone have comments or direct knowledge of this?
Nice to read an article like this.
Vacation rentals are out of control in this town.
I had a live band at the vacation rental in my neighborhood two weeks ago… Really!
Totally oblivious to all the neighborhoods permanent residents, ” we’re just here for a fun weekend “.
Well it’s not a fun weekend if you live next door to these VHRs.
Nice to read an article like this.
Vacation rentals are out of control in this town.
I had a live band at the vacation rental in my neighborhood two weeks ago… Really!
Totally oblivious to all the neighborhoods permanent residents, ” we’re just here for a fun weekend “.
Well it’s not a fun weekend if you live next door to these VHRs.
I agree with Mr. Ribaudo that this type of enforcement should have been put in place decades ago. Discussions on VHRs, their associated problems, and the VHR ordinance were conducted on eight separate meeting dates beginning in November 2014 through July 2015 and the VHR management companies that publically spoke at the City Council meetings said the 2014 reported problems with VHRs had been so few that they were to the point of being negligible. The local realtors that publically spoke said that implementation of the recommended changes to the VHR ordinance would destroy SLTs real estate market and cause existing home values to plummet.
I think their causes could have been helped had they demonstrated some measure of regard for people living in our community that are impacted by VHRs but instead the public comments from the majority of the industry professionals who spoke was mainly verbal abuse, name calling, and threats to those in opposition to them. The line they drew in the sand gave the impression that they had no concern for anyone but themselves, and the longer their vitriolic comments continued the more my support for them eroded. People need to work together to find solutions when there are such obvious problems and the VHR management companies and local realtors did not show a willingness to do that.
I was born and raised in South Lake Tahoe. My husband and I chose to leave the Tahoe basin in February to live in the the greater carson valley area.. i truly thought the day I left Tahoe would never come… But I grew tired.. tired of the vacation renters keeping me up every weekend and especially during weeks like 4th of July where our UNMARKED vacation Rental located on Modesto was right next door to us and they partied for 5 days straight every night and kept us up every single night why we had to work long hours catering to them (tourist) the next day.. it fathoms me that people can be so rude in neighborhoods when confronted by us we were told by the vacation rental occupants that “its our 4th of July!” when the police were called they were so backed up with other complaints we were informed it would take awhile to get there.. this is the same for new years and every other normal weekend ALL summer long in Tahoe.. it saddend me to see a town i love so much and that used to have tons of families everywhere and was geared towards families allow the vacation rental industry to disturb the very people that cater to them on a daily basis.. there needs to be stricter laws and enforcements. But I am all to aware of how many people are up there during holiday periods and how rowdy it really gets.. also the lack of man power to handle all these disturbances.. I didnt leave Tahoe solely because of vacation rentals.. i left because the job market is not getting better, the corporate mentality of employers in Tahoe is horendous they have so many transients and bodies to fill positions it is very hard to get what is considered a good job in tahoe and be compensated and treated well for the work you do, the vacation rentals are out of control and have NO regulations i moved for peace and quite so i didnt have to deal with them or ten kids renting a house next to me also that partied too. i left so my kid could ride her bike down the street without fear of being hit by a car or a drunk driver, because I just had to come to the realization that Tahoe isnt the place i once knew and it is different now.. you can find a vacation rental to rent but try finding a residence to rent..or one that is not a dive. vacation rentals out number rentals for people that live there. I left to “live the dream” so i could buy a house one day live in a nice neighborhood. Have a decent job, Get GOOD SLEEP at night and not be woken up every weekend. Something has got to change up there.. MY wish is that it would turn into the once small family orientated town it used to be. But sadly i think its just a dream..
and shenja your comment and mentality is exactly what I am talking about. A constant DISREGARD for the families and people that have lived there for many years live there now, and own homes in the Tahoe basin.. They are not “cry babies” they have financial investments and families to raise and are watching their neighborhoods get destroyed by noise trash partying bear break ins and many other things. your comment not only lacks any real thought process or intelligence of ANY kind but its frankly childish and completely shows that you really have no comment as it lacked any real substantial substance your mentality is what is a contributing factor in this debate! A constant disregard for neighbors and people in general..
4-Mer-USMC,
One can’t take local Realtors as being experts on vacation rentals holding our property values up.
These Realtors are only experts in saving their own hides with commissions.
Most vacation rentals have no yard maintenance or landscaping worth a darn – mainly because it doesn’t get them any more rent, and in the case across the street vacation renters park their excessive cars in the yard anyway. Do any of you do that at home ?
I have three vacation rentals directly across the street. Not only do I have to disclose that when I sell – but does anyone truly believe my property value is enhanced by three noisy VHR’s across the street ?
Their trash attracts bears and bear beak-ins, vacation guests party all night long and come and go from the casinos, car doors slamming and people howling all hours of the night, drunken screaming and loud music off back decks with flood lights on all night every night, strange people walking the neighborhood streets all day and night, etc etc etc ……
I want them GONE – as do most of my neighbors !
Let the Realtors and Investors find another way to make quick bucks…..
We don’t benefit one bit from any revenue derived from these Vaca Rentals !
Cranky Gerald, we asked the city to not issue a VHR permit if there was not adequate insurance and they balked at the idea. Seems there are only two choices for us permanent residents and that is a referendum on no VHR’s or a lawsuit that the city is not enforcing its zoning laws.
Tahoe local-
Thanks for that information. I agree with your comments on a referendum or lawsuit. I personally live in the county, so I have my own problems with vacation rental…there are many in my neighborhood.
I have had 2 of them smoking on my back deck in the morning looking at the view. When I asked them what they were doing on my deck their answer was ” uh, we didn’t know anybody was home.”
A referendum and its required signatures just might be posssible.
I do not believe, as Mim Morris rants, that property ownership rights mean you get to use your property in violation of zoning.
But we all know he has been getting his way for years with the city by being ugly, angry and who knows what dirt he has on more than one of them? He certainly seems to sway the brueaucracy.
All the idiots don’t rent in the city.
I think over the 12 months there will be enough data to see if the ordinance will have an impact on home prices. At that time we can revisit the issue and if needed make changes.
It used to be if you couldn’t afford a second home at Tahoe, you just couldn’t have your own getaway. Now, people who live elsewhere simply buy a second home here and finance it by renting it out, to the detriment of local residents. Our local residents should not bear the responsibility for making second-home ownership a reality for people who live elsewhere.
The bullying tactics we have seen from many in the real estate community are just that, and the City Council and County Supervisors need to start enforcing zoning laws.
Passion-
I agree completely!
Carl-
I for one do not care if these reasonable regulations affect home prices. It would be for the ultimate good if it did.
The fact that you need to disclose the VCR status of your neighborhood says it all.
The vacation rental industry does not benefit anyone except the rental owners and the real estate community.
Follow the Zoning or suffer the consequences.
Passion: Ditto.
I can’t stand these second homes….I mean motels. One out of town owner in my neighborhood has neglected his motel and it’s nothing more than a HUGE fire hazard. He comes around twice year and piles MORE dead wood all around his (already) tumbleweed infested property.
I’m close to calling the Forest Circus so he may be ordered to reduce the timber box. If I were some tourist I would complain at the lack of maintenance and the low-life look he has created. These nuisance tourists pay good money for a place….not an old dry weed and deadwood fire box.
Thats fine Gerald once the data is reviewed people may differ. We will have to see. I think the goal is to have solid enforcement do residents can enjoy their neighborhood and at the same time maintain home values.
I agree with Passion. However the powers that be should have thought about this a long time ago before this mess started. With these new city regulations people who want a vacation rental will be looking outside the city limits, So county residents beware.
Moving forward the solution seems simple three strikes and your out. Forget the money generation from fines. Three verified legitimate complaints and you loose your vacation rental permit period! This will force vacation rental managers to make sure weekend tenants are aware of the rules. They are the ones who are making the money from them let them police this problem and manage them responsibly.
50 yr: The rental agencies are completely worthless. They make their commission and have no huevos to drive to and confront the out of control idiot tourists. When contacted they call the violators and are fine with them saying “we will be quiet”. That’s the extent of it. The reality is they will NOT be quiet. The only number I need is to EDSO. I’m sick of the negligence….almost ready to put my home on the market for twice it’s worth and have some bay area fool snatch it up.
It’s not the fact that 20 people are renting a house and partying until 3AM..(last night next door to my place on North Upper) it’s that these idiots act like they have never been out of thier own homes before! Literally SCREAMING at each other, and thier unsocialized dogs going berserk all day. Common courtesy is dead. Me and my friends get together all the time..we rage to about 11, then tone it down and quietly party like ADULTS that have been there before. In this country our knee jerk reaction is to just ban something rather than fixing the issue. The issue here is clueless Bay trash, but they can be taught.
Yes, the powers that be should have considered all of this, but Jim Morris and others were threatening to go to court to make the City return all TOT that had been collected on a handful of vacation rentals over the years. That occurred more than a decade ago.
The threats need to stop, the City needs to take its power back and consider the quality of life for local residents. After all, we generate money too – we pay taxes!
Go back to Ohio dummy’s.
I think we might have turned the corner on this issue. I have the best VHR in town next to me. Almost no problems in seven years.
Every year or so a loud group shows up. This happened a couple of weeks ago. I keep my car keys next to my bed with my car alarm klicker attached.
I hit the car alarm and within seconds the renter who put up the deposit came out and told them that was a hint and to get inside.
He thanked me for not calling the police the next day.
Think of it this way…if you were staying at a hotel and a room close to yours was being loud and obnoxious, you would call the front desk and ask to have it stopped. Why should it be any different when you are at HOME? Homes are in residential areas for a reason!
Property values in the whole of SLT would go down if vacation rentals were banned.
Approximately 10% of the Tahoe Keys are occupied by full timers.
About 40% in my area of Montgomery Estates are full timers.
The Sierra Tract and other low cost housing areas probably have about 60% full timers.
I am not betting on these stats because I don’t have the actual data at hand.It was published a few years ago.
Housing pricing at Lake Tahoe as everywhere else are based on supply and demand. If vacation rentals were banned most people who buy a second home up here would not buy. Most all except for the very rich, want to rent their places, if for only a few weeks to help with the expenses and justify a second home that will set empty for most of the year.
As soon as the vote passed to ban all Vacation Rentals all of our potential vacation rentals that we own would plummet in price.
The best scenario is what looks like we have now. Good police enforcement.
The worst scenario is we all loose about 50% of our property values.
Lets live, and let live, and be nice to one another.
Property values in the whole of SLT would go down if vacation rentals were banned.
Approximately 10% of the Tahoe Keys are occupied by full timers.
About 40% in my area of Montgomery Estates are full timers.
The Sierra Tract and other low cost housing areas probably have about 60% full timers.
I am not betting on these stats because I don’t have the actual data at hand.It was published a few years ago.
Housing pricing at Lake Tahoe as everywhere else are based on supply and demand. If vacation rentals were banned most people who buy a second home up here would not buy. Most all except for the very rich, want to rent their places, if for only a few weeks to help with the expenses and justify a second home that will sit empty for most of the year.
As soon as the vote passes to ban all Vacation Rentals, all of our property, whether it be vacation rental or our personal home, will plummet in value.
The best scenario is what looks like we have now. Good police enforcement.
The worst scenario is we all loose about 50% of our property values.
Lets live, and let live, and be nice to one another.
who cares, les. we just do not want motels in our neighborhoods.
I don’t buy that argument Les. Tahoe has a finite amount of space for homes, and a finite amount of lots that can be built, and a finite amount of permits for building and sewer. This to me is just a scare tactics buy the Realtors.
Seriously, how many people are going to buy a home and say “We don’t have enough VHR’s in our neighborhood!”. It might drop a little, but I doubt it and really don’t care, it isn’t going to be much. Maybe some more locals will be able to afford homes in our neighborhood. Gee, that doesn’t seem so bad to me.
bigfishy:yup
Hey Les, it’s all about the money huh. Do you have a real estate license?
I think the only people in this town who actually like vacation rentals are the realtors and property owners that own these homes.
As always, it’s all about the money. To hell with everything and everyone else.
Don’t mess with my cash cow is there philosophy.
The reverse side of the argument is that if vacation rentals were banned, the quality of life for full and part timers would improve so dramatically that families would return, prices would increase, and purchasing a property here would be a better long term investment. There are home buyers and investors now that avoid areas like South Shore with its well known problems with loud, boisterous vacation rentals and no guarantee that the property next door won’t be turned into one.
Les, you are correct, the people on this board dont care about logic and dont care about basic economic laws of supply and demand. Nor do they care about the city services that would be lost when 2 million dollars of city income is lost. Nor do they care if their neighbors lose their jobs with lost wage income of 20 million. They DONT CARE about the economy of the city AT ALL.
Really Reloman? This is a tourist town, there is always plenty of supply. We do care about logic, not greed however. We have a right to quiet enjoyment of our property. Realtors know this term, and sell it everywhere.
bigfishy, these people dont want to stay in motels, they are used to vacation homes and will go else where, like north shore. Thats Ok its all about the money, like the money to feed a cleaning ladies kids. We can afford to loose 15% of our jobs. Our neighbors dont need they, thay can just leave town when those jobs leave like the tourist that like vacation homes.
what everyone here seems to miss is that our little town thrives on tourism. This is the new face of tourism. if you didn’t want to deal with tourists, you should live in a town that does not depend on it.
vacation rentals are not just an issue in SLT, but everywhere. Look it up.
youhavegottobekiddingme nails it.
Mr. Wright, great comment! For those of you that don’t believe property values will go down call the title companies and ask how many escrows have fallen out since new ordinance. I have the numbers and it is not good.
I also agree that a problem VHR should be controlled. Mr. Loyola has a great personality and is very professional. Didn’t need to waste all of the time at the City Council or draw lines, simply needed to enforce the ordinance on the books. 90% of what I read above has been addressed and has been handled. An informed community is a happy community!
I have been a vacation rental owner since 2003.
I am good friends with the home owners in my area and respect them. I collect and send a lot of tax money to the city.
My permit is going to double in price and will need to have city inspections. Good you say?
There is not much money in this business and a lot of work, and yes I bring in people to spend money in South Lake Tahoe.
When you succeed to shut me down and ruin my struggling little stupid rental business. Maybe I will rent my well maintained cabin to full-time renters that will live off your city resources, party all week and live on your unemployment taxes rather than me providing them.
Why punish all vacation rentals? some of us care about “our” city just as much as you think you do. No one likes rude neighbors, vacationing and or full-time residents.
Raising the fees just means more people will rent, with out getting permits or collecting tax for the city. Do not be-leave me? check out airbnb and all the people renting with out permits or charging taxes for your city that Motels,Hotels, honest vacation rentals have to compete in price with that live in your city right now. There are thousands of them and I only stated one web site. What is your city doing to them? The 5000 fine is a great threat yet where is the list of the people who have been fined? Airbnb and vbro just get bigger. By law the permit number needs to be on the add, check it out, do you see permit numbers or city tax fees? Some of us follow the law and run respectable rentals with approval of our fine neighbors, yet are punished for doing so with more fees. Shut down the bad rentals that low ball their price, pack their home with to many people, cheat you out of tax money and permit fees. Send citations to them and you will solve the problem.
Why try to bankrupt the good honest rentals that help pay your tax bills, take pride in the rental they operate and in the neighborhood. Some rentals care about you as a neighbor and bring dollars to your city. I know this for a fact as I am one of them.
Well spoken Rick, I to am and a landlord a here in SLT and have seen manyy ups and downs with tennants and neighbors.
Sometimes I still wish I was still drivn’ a garbage truck for STR! Take care , OLS
Joby,
Could you share the escrow cancellation numbers with us?
Its not a win, win situation, the city is reaping the benefits while we the people are subjected to having our peace and quiet destroyed and apparently they could care less. What else would you expect from self-serving public electives such as Cole which is a great example.
Maybe we should vote in to have Cole’s huge meadow for outdoor concerts, special event venue, see how that goes for him/family!
Thanks Rick for your side of the issue. I agree, the VRBO’s and under cover VR’s are a big issue the city must address.
Besides, it is after labor day! You locals enjoy this brief reprieve we get from the onslaught of tourism.
The data I looked up online shows that 347 homes were sold last year compared to 358 so far this year, at this time. This is public information and can easily be checked. Another scare story, everything is speculation when it comes to home values. 15% people losing jobs, not going to happen. They already have their work, unless people decide to stop renting out their VHR’s.
Anyone who has read the ordinance knows nothing is going to change, except for more enforcement. The city is not outlawing VHR’s, just trying to find a reasonable solution. Yes more in fees, too bad. If you want to go the AIRBNB route and I find out, I will turn you in. The person who wants to turn his new second home into a VHR, still can, but neighbors can comment on it. As the city council said, one comment will not stop a person from getting a VHR permit. Nothing will change but your VHR fees go up a little, and more enforcement.
Bunch of people who cry wolf, with no back up but their imagination. Once again lower home values is a false argument with no back up but speculation.
It’s a complicated issue involving residents piece and quiet, home values, impact on the city budget and the advancement of technology. Key is resident quality of life. Hopefully this will be achieved via the better enforcement program which as I stated above should have been done years ago and if done well could address a number of issues. Hopefully we will see a reduction in issues and complaints once the word gets out that loud behavior etc. is not acceptable. The value of homes is in the eye of the beholder some don’t care others do and we don’t know the impact yet but we will in about a year. Will the new ordinance reduce demand and thus home values will decline. Or will the new ordinance make neighborhoods more livable and thus increase home values. No one knows and we will see. If property rentals go down there will be an impact on the city budget thus those funds will have to be replaced somehow or services reduced. With regard to technology and VRBO and AirBNB there is no policy any municipality can create and enforce that will out run technology so this issue will probably be with us for awhile. Other municipalities have figured this out and are developing policies that seek to harness this as opposed to fighting it.
The city policy is a series of tradeoffs, we had a policy which didn’t work for some local residents we have a new policy let’s see how it goes. The policy has not been in place long enough, let’s give it time and see what happens. It might just work.
Property values go down-
Great ! Then all the hard working locals who wish to currently buy but are priced out could then become homeowners. Pride in our neighborhoods would return. Families enjoying what Tahoe has to offer. And no homes crammed full of drunk partiers and speeders on our streets. No more illegal motels being built in our neighborhoods.
No VHR’s and property values drop, bring it on !
Bigfishy, I beleive Joby was talking about escrows that were canceled AFTER the new ordaniance was put into placce. You would have to check the numbers on sales a year from now in order to determine what effect it may have had, short term numbers are not always the entire picture.
Big fishy, when i was talking about the effect on employment, this would be in the case where VHRs were baned completely, as some like Steve would like. He seems to think if we ban them people with no jobs, or income would be able to get a mortgage.
I hope they hire the second enforcement officer that was placed in the budget. Enforcement has always been the issue. I also hope that these enforcement officers are not drawn away from these duties, like the last one that we had a few years ago.
You mean housing will become more affordable if it’s used for its intended purpose? That’s a good thing!
And I can now open an auto shop out of my house? I mean I won’t be too annoying with it. If I leave auto parts all over my lawn, and if I work on cars well into the night, the issue will be enforcement. You know so I don’t have the area around my house looking that bad, and so I’m not working on cars that late at night.
Yes, let’s justify the issue by saying the problem is ‘enforcement’.
Airbnb has a list of all the city’s and county’s that have forced them to collect tax for them. Why is the city of South Lake Tahoe not on the list? Want to slow down vacation rental? want to pay for the enforcement?
This must happen where people advertise to rent in the first place. Where is the city cop that fine’s Craig’s list adds for not showing their permit number or mandatory tax rate? Where is the city lawyer that has airbnb in court? San Francisco makes airbnb collect 14 percent for them, it is mandatory on all adds that book rentals. What happens when airbnb collects the mandatory tax, they turn it in to the city for the rental. The city then knows the property and if it is legal and has a permit.
Want a small list of mandatory tax collected?
San Jose=10% Oakland =14% Paloalto=14% Oregon=1%
Chicago=4.5% phoeniz AZ=3% North Carolina =6.75%
The list goes on………… South Lake Tahoe? nope not on the list. Wake up city enforcers.
I run a vacation rental, do I like tax? No
The city needs to level the playing field between honest Motels, Hotels, Vacation rentals and Illegal rentals.
Running around the city after the fact giving out citations in the middle of the night to people visiting the city will not stop the illegal rental business. If the city of South Lake Tahoe really wanted to stop this they would enforce the law and make all the people who are trying to rent their homes illegally think twice before they list the property in the first place. This is a no brainer for me.
Parker,
I have a neighbor who works on cars day and night. Fixes other people’s boats, cars, snowmobile, jet skies ect. Has a few classic cars to.
He is a great neighbor, yes a little noisy but I could not ask for a better neighbor and hope he never moves from my neighborhood.
P.S.
When I have a car problem guess who helps me?
go after airbnb
Good point Rick. My point is either have zoning or not. If neighborhoods aren’t for strictly residential use, then so be it! This half-a#%^d baloney of making an exception by allowing what are in essence motels in the neighborhoods, is what needs to be eliminated.
I agree with Toxic Warrior. Why have zoning laws if they mean nothing?
Realtors have probably encountered buyers who want to buy away from vacation rentals but where is “away”?
They sell out our neighborhoods to buyers who can’t afford a home unless they use it for a vacation rental. Thanks a lot for destroying our family neighborhoods so you can sell to someone who can barely afford to buy and will not keep the home to the neighborhood standard because they are operating on a shoestring.
Well another Saturday night and my neighborhood vacation rentals tenants are howling at the moon every 10 minutes or so…wooooooo at the top of their lungs for no apparent reason.
It’s warm tonight so I’d love to be able to open my windows but that as usual is out of the question. VHR’s are a neighborhood disaster if you live near one.
Arrive on vacation, leave with a $270 dollar citation.
Good riddance.
Rooster,
Did you call the police?
Yep, I’ve been dealing with this all summer and every summer since this home (hotel) was built on what had been the empty lot next to my home (of 15 years) without calling but I was just fed up last night. I frankly could call at least once a month but Im trying to be as tolerant as possible as far as calling the police but I’m getting worn out by this.