S. Tahoe retirees grapple with potential spike in health care
Publisher’s note: This is the second of a two-part series about South Lake Tahoe’s fiscal situation.
By Kathryn Reed
Fixed incomes and health care payments are beginning to clash for South Lake Tahoe retirees.
As retirees, most of their retirement checks are set. Not so when it comes to health care benefits. They get what employees get. And this may mean they could be paying more as of Oct. 1.
While discussions sputter along between city negotiators and the seven collective bargaining units, the retirees are making noise. They want a seat at the table, but are being denied. They say in past years they’ve been able to have a voice, but say City Manager Tony O’Rourke is denying them that opportunity now.
“As to why the retirees are not at the table: 1. It is not in the seven collective bargaining MOUs. 2. It is exclusive bargaining right of the city and current employees to amend the health plan and cost structure. 3. If retirees were at the table, it is only fair city taxpayers were also there since they ultimately pay for all our health care costs,” O’Rourke told Lake Tahoe News.
Retirees have three representatives residing in Lake Tahoe – none allowed a seat at the table.
Lake Tahoe News obtained the following message from a 28-year city employee retired for 16 years who sent the following email to O’Rourke, “What is being proposed will put some of us on welfare. The cost of insurance has not gone up very much for the city and to try to increase our deductible by 300 percent for individual and 450 percent for family and a 400 percent increase in individual out of pocket and a 600 percent increase in family out of pocket. My retirement pension is $28,000 per year. We will have to go on welfare. Please don’t do this to the retirees. Those that are working can still plan for their future. I’m 70 years old and I cannot; my future was planned 16 years ago and now you’re trying to kill me.”
Retirees are subject to the same health care as employees – so if employees agree to changes, retirees have no choice.
The current deductible for retirees is $250 and the city is looking at increasing it to $750. Now they must pay $1,000 out of pocket, with the possibility of that increasing to $4,000.
“I wouldn’t have left if I knew they were going to take the medical away,” said Mike Pollack, who worked for the public works department from 1982-2009. “I have no idea what the recourse is but go back to work.”
Retirees have told Lake Tahoe News they are looking into their legal options. With one of them being a retired city attorney, they have connections.
One thing several retirees told Lake Tahoe News is they sacrificed pay increase with the promise of premium health benefits upon retirement.
“When we retired we expected no changes in our benefits. We had a realistic expectation that what we went out with, we would keep,” Candy Morganson, who worked as a secretary for the fire department, and building and safety from October 1979 to December 2004, said. “What happened is the day you walk out the door they hand you a piece of paper and they force you to sign it. Whatever current employees have, you get, too.”
Many who talked to Lake Tahoe News believed they were retiring with a defined health benefit that could not be changed. That’s not the case.
“It’s not my fault they don’t have the money,” Al Turner said. He blames previous councils and city managers for their financial choices as to why there isn’t money now to pay for retiree benefits.
Turner worked for the city in the roads department for nearly 30 years, having retired in April 2004.
He said his colleagues gave up about 12 percent worth of raises to have the city pick up the pension and health care costs.
“Don’t tell me I’m not paying for it,” Turner said.
To reel in costs, a previous City Council passed a policy that says anyone hired after Jan. 1, 2008, will not receive health benefits from the city upon retirement.
Currently, 134 retirees are on the city’s health care plan and 188 employees use it.
The following is an example of a vesting schedule as provided by the city:
Less than 10 years: employee pays 100 percent, city pays zero.
More than 10, less than 15: employee pays 75 percent, city 25 percent.
More than 15, less than 20: employee pays 50 percent, city 50 percent.
More than 20, less than 25: employee pays 25 percent, city pays 75 percent.
More than 25: employee pays zero percent, city pays 100 percent.
The city is self-insured. The last time the city went out for a request for proposal for health insurance was in 2010.
For 2011-12, the city has budgeted $1,989,712 for retiree health benefits. Health costs are estimated to increase between 4 to 5 percent annually over the next five years, according to the city.
“Assuming a middle point, 4.5 percent increase, then the total amount estimated for the next five years would be $10,885,137,” city spokeswoman Nancy Kerry said.
She broke down the figures as follows:
• Fiscal year 2011-12 $1,989,712
• FY 2012-13 $2,079,249
• FY 2013-14 $2,172,815
• FY 2014-15 $2,270,592
• FY 2015-16 $2,372,769.
Retirees have their own budgets, costs and stories to share.
The following is from Morganson:
“Last August, my husband suffered a life-threatening medical emergency requiring emergency bilateral brain surgery. He spent a combined total of seven weeks in three different hospitals in Reno and San Francisco – nine days in ICU at Renown Medical Center, a month at Tahoe Pacific Hospital (respiratory rehab) as he required a tracheotomy immediately post-op as he could no longer breath without assistance, and then two weeks in the acute rehab section for TBI at St. Francis Hospital in San Francisco. As you can imagine, the costs for this care were staggering. This doesn’t count the cost of the ALS ambulance transport from Reno to San Francisco and from San Francisco back home in Incline Village.
“While Medicare picked up a substantial portion of the costs after their deductible, the city insurance also picked up the balance after applying deductibles. Luckily I had the few thousand dollars to handle that. If the same occurred with the newly proposed cuts in coverage/increased co-pay and ‘stop loss’ amounts, the result would be financially devastating. As retirees, we exist on a fixed income with very little ‘wiggle room’ in our budget.
“While nobody can plan for a catastrophic event such we experienced, it only takes once to financially devastate a family. That is yet another reason we retirees want our medical coverage — to remain as it was when we retired and as we were led to believed it would, at least until the day each of us retired and were forced to sign the form I described to you. I think I would be safe to say that retirees would have no problem if current employees want to impose these increased costs on themselves, but we want the city to honor it obligation to us retirees & leave our medical benefits alone.”
When Tom Fay started with the city he made $1.85 an hour. By the time he left in 1996 he was making $19/hour as street superintendent of public works. His pension is less than $28,000 a year, he said.
“We gave up several years of raises to get the medical package,” Fay said. “The majority of retirees were there when the salaries were low. Medical benefits were the asset they were looking forward to.”
Lets cut to the chase and disolve the city back to a town, get rid of the City Council and the City Manager, elect a Town Council and humbily ask Eldorado County to take this poorly ran city over.
One more thing that the Council and the public should know is that many of the employees that are retired are on MEDICARE and Medicare pay’s 80% of the medical cost and the City is only responsible for 20%. MEDICARE discounts the charges that they pay and the City also Discounts what they pay.
The cost to the City is Minimal and of very little cost to the City.
South Lake Tahoe’s city employees have historically enjoyed significantly higher wages and benefits than the local private sector. For this reason, city staff turnover has always been comparitively low. To claim they were denied raises and sacrificed pay increases is inappropriate and self-serving.
Let the taxpayers have a seat at the table, put it on the ballot. Do taxpayers wish to continue to be so generous to public sector employees with their tax dollars? There is little doubt the message from the real world will be clear.
I worked for over 25 years in hospital management. I do not receive a penny in health care benefits. I must pay for my supplemental health care, as does my husband, a retired schoolteacher. Why should we, as taxpayers, be paying the health benefits for retired city employees?
OUR CITY IS WAY BEHIND THE TIMES in paying for health benefits for their retired employees. Very few organizations do this any more because of the high cost of health care. THE COST OF HEALTH CARE BENEFITS CAN BREAK ANY ORGANIZATION!
Once a person qualifies for Medicare, there is no reason for the city to be paying for health benefits. There are many selections for supplemental benefits that retired citizens can make.
I pay over $600.00 a month for health ins. with a $4000.00 ded. If I ever retire I will get social security and medicare at 65. I will not get 90% of my highest wage after 30 years, like the city employees do and they retire way before 65 so, they should have to pay all of their health ins. cost like everyone else, not in the public sector does.
Xlocal $2million a year and growing is not a minimal cost to the city. And medicare doesn’t kick in until 65. When people have medical emergencies that’s a terrible thing but why should I pay for someone else’s medical problems , and I do since I am the taxpayer. I don’t see anyone come to my door and help me pay for mine when I’m sick. I’m all for having a fundraiser when someone gets sick, but not with tax payer dollars. The stories here may be true, but for these few there are quite a few more. I’d like to know the high and low salary of retirees, actually I’d like to know all the salaries of the retirees and how many are getting the no-cost health benefits, how many are earning over 75,000 a year as “retirement pay,” what are they paying and compare that to the community salaries. It’s like the poor souls who live here are giving our money to those who make more.
With yesterday’s story they pay literaly nothing for retirement and today’s story most pay nothing for health care and this “nothing” is for the rest of their lives, sounds like the City was spending their money on employees rather than fixing our roads and making this community what it should be.
Government salaries pensions and health care costs should never have been a giveaway , freebie, welfare for the working. No wonder the gov’ts are going broke and are the industry leading the way with layoffs and pushing us into a possible second recession.
This idea they were promised anything, give me a break. The country is collapsing before our eyes, our community might not pull out of this for many years and you want to pound your fist on the table and say don’t pass any of this burden onto you, but its ok to pass that onto me to pay your tab?
When retirees are 65 they should go on Medicare no City money. Employees shouldn’t be allowed to retire until 60, if they have social security they should collect that first and city retirement benefits second. You earned a good living while you were working and should have planned for you retirement not counted on us to pay for it. No one is paying for mine.
Tell me about it, Lou! My husband and I are now paying 1K a month for our $3600 deductible 70/30 plan. No RX coverage till we hit that deductible. I’m already 55, but my husband doesn’t turn 55 till next year, so it’ll be interesting to see how THAT increment will bump up our premiums in addition to all the yearly increases that have been happening recently. It’s insane. I don’t know how my husband can keep pounding nails and pouring concrete for another ten years till medicare kicks in. Within that time our medical insurance should take his entire income. If only the govt. would stop requiring insurance companies to cover EVERYTHING under the sun, we’d be free to choose a less expensive, personally tailored policy. But NO.
This whole argument is over supplemental insurance?
It’s nice that they had these benefits for so long, but this is not the norm. Many people only have Medicare. It’s one thing to have insurance while your working, but having a previous employer pay for medical when your retired, not normal, and definitely unaffordable in these times of decreasing revenues.
Happy days of rolling in the dough are gone, everyone has to tighten their belts, especially when your fellow citizens are the ones paying for your retirement benefits.
P.S. one of the first sentences in the article is about how seniors are on “fixed incomes”.
Excuse me, but how many of us can just say we’d like a little more income and get it? We’re ALL pretty much on fixed incomes unless we want to work 3 or 4 jobs. IF we have incomes at all. At least retired seniors, if they want, can get a part time job to supplement. Heck, WalMart hires lots of disabled and seniors!
“X Local” makes a good point about the reduction in medical costs to the City for retirees on Medicare. Also, it should be noted that the 20% is based on the Medicare balance remaining AFTER Medicare adjustments. The City should take a hard look at the outrageous cost for their third party administrator who handles processing claims for the City.
Our city is self insured. City government made promises they now feel they can’t keep. The first thing some one does, when they don’t want to own up, is blame the other guy. The work force was there when needed and if city government did not plan further out when they promised benefits how can it be the blame of the retirees? The loss of benefits is real and will impact many, many people who were led to believe that the earning cuts they took while they were working, would pay off in promised incentives at their retirement. Karma has a way of eventually evening things out. Make your decisions honest.
Great subject, Kaye! Look at all of the responses you got! This is the kind of dialogue that the council needs to see and consider. There are many, many good points brought out by all of these contributors.
Thank you.
So does STPUD where concessions are never made only increased to the tune of 21.9% in the last three years. At least the city workers are trying to work with CM to help save their jobs. At least that shows they care about this community. I pay $1400.00 per month insurance with a huge deductible.
Make all workers pay into social security, then the public employees pensions would be the same as the rest of us. BK is s.l.t. only solution if things don’t change. It’s the policy makers, the city council, who’s at fault for this whole mess.
Very true Lou as they are the ones who have allowed this to happen. The employees of all Govt, City and PUD’s will only take what is given to them by our elected officials. Of course it helps when the elected officials are paid through contributions, “friendly conversations” and downright strongarming to achieve what they want. Elected officials cannot be friends with the help. Thank God ml is not running and I like ml very much.
Ski Bum how can you say the workers are trying to work with the City, didn’t you read yesterday’s article and this one, they don’t want to give up one penny to save one job. The retirees could care less about how many jobs are lost so long as we taxpayers continue to pay their benefits. They aren’t on fixed incomes either, their retirement goes up 2 or 3 percent every year for cost of living. When is the last time you got a cost of living increase these days.
Retiring at 80,90% of your pay with colas at some point they’ll actually be getting more than they did working.
Cap the benefits at 75% of pay or less. I gotta agree with the idea they should get everything the public gets – social security, no free health care, and no retirement until the rest of us get it at 65.
Put it all to a vote of the public and I think we know how the vote will turn out.
Probably the same way it turns out when renters get to vote whether or not to raise the taxes of property owners.
Put yourself in the well worn city workers shoes. You stick with a job for many years, plowing snow and patching roads while putting up with ever more harder working conditions. Patching up old and outdated equipment, shorter hours due to furloughs,wage freezes, lay offs and no new hires to replace the now unemployed co-workers, shrinking city revenue in the city coffers due to a shrinking tax base. Hang in there, you tell yourself, a few more years and I can retire.
Then you find out for all your years of hard labor it’s all being snatched away. Your’e getting old and sore so try and hang in there, just a few more years and you can retire, only to have your future be taken away again in the form of cuts to medicare and social security.
Bleak picture? Most certainly, but I’m afraid thats what awaits millions of people in what was once a great country. Greed and corruption at the top and the rest are left to scramble for the crumbs. Another day in America…
Over the years I’ve known many city workers and they bust their butts to do a good job, to turn our backs on them now is heartless , cruel and effed up!!!
Our city manager needs to be set straight before he runs out of SLT and destroys what we have left in this town,THAT GOES FOR THE CITY COUNCIL AS WELL!
I agree with Tahoe Geo’s comments–the city mgr. and city council should be eliminated–the El Dorado County needs to have someone (not corrupt, or taking kickbacks) to look into this–something smells to high heaven- a cesspool of evil- citizens of SLT Unite to fight this scheme to ruin our city…
Mr. Rockwell, The city’s health, dental and vision cost per employee is apx. $22,000.00 per year. $22,000.00 is 150% of the min. wage for a year, this does not seem heartless, cruel and effed up to anyone I know, unless they have a vested interest in these benefits. We can’t kick the can down the road anymore cuz there is nothing left.
Mr. Rockwell, put yourself in our shoes! We paid you a good salary to do a job. You got guarented raises regardless of how well you did your job. You got a lot of benefits that we don’t get. You didn’t pay a cent into your benefits including your retirement. And since retirement, you continue to get raises for doing nothing. You get free health care (talk about a government health care program!). You have enjoyed the many benefits we taxpayers have given you. Now would be the time we should see these gov’t employees showing thanks for all they have been given and start offering to give back.
The economy has tanked and now we can’t pay you as much any more. The city is going to have to layoff people because retirees are collecting some 2 MILLION dollars a year just to make doubly sure you and all the retirees don’t have to share more of the cost of health care, but it’s ok if we do?? Mr. Rockwell and all the others, take off your blinders!
$22,000 a year per retiree could cover a lot of jobs in the city and in the community. Before long there won’t be anyone working at the city and they’ll just be collecting our taxes to give it to the retirees, forget fixing the roads or paying for cops.
Mr. Rockwell, Walk a mile in our shoes. We can’t get jobs, pay our bills, but our taxes keep going up and when we ask where’s the money going, we find out its not going to help the public – it’s going to some people who helped themselves to a nice share of the kitty. Time to the put the lid on the cookie jar, the days of wine and roses are over.
How can you possibly blame employees for the skyrocketing healthcare costs? Isn’t that a product of our completely broken health care system? Talk about a redistribution of wealth… it all goes straight to insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc.
Robot, an awful lot of it goes to the lawyers suing doctors and drug companies, and the politicians who make rules forcing insurance companies to cover everything instead of allowing the market to work and let people pick and choose their own coverages.
Blaming trial lawyers…. defending big pharma and the health insurance thieves…You still believe something is going to trickle down. That’s sad. Vote for one of the GOP circus clown car line up of wacko candidates. You people are in Superman’s bizarro world.
The retired City Employees I know all cared about doing a good job for the City and Community and all admit they have a great retirement plan courtesy of the taxpayer! To quote one of them, “If I was the taxpayer, I’d be pissed!” So I don’t feel bad if they have a greater out of pocket expense.
The City should keep its obligations! But this doesn’t seem like the higher out of pocket expenses is a violation of any promise? If some feel a real pinch because of it, welcome to the world most of us are experiencing in these times!
And the reason for sky rocketing health care costs are many! But they include the fact that there are tax subsidies for big corporations to cover employees, even with the expensive ‘Cadillac Plans’. And that so many in the public sector have a blank check for their health care coverage!
Dogwoamn I have dug up figures on what percentage of increases are caused by trail lawyers and it is insignificant.
HAHAHAHHA invoking the ‘free market’ when it comes to health care, and specifically our healthcare. Actually that is disgusting.
Health is a commodity, a market, for people to make a profit on….
What the hell is wrong with you people.
This a Christian nation right? Right?
Tessie; I should have said some city workers are wil to work with the CM to try and help save their jobs but I can tell you, jobs might be saved but benefits are going to suffer. This country, state, county and city cannot afford the generous retirement packages that were the norm of past. Most of the abuse is from upper level staff who are allowed to “spike” their last year and dramtically increase their pensions. No one should ever be allowed to make more in a pension than what they took home. It is the abuse of a few that are going to cause problems for all. The biggest abusers don’t live here when they retire. Most city workers I know are very good at what they do and want to make the town a livable community once again. We need that community spirit again. Jerry Garcia said it best ” I need a miracle every day”
Trial lawyers are an insignificant impact on healthcare costs? Really? When a doctor has to pay 100K a year for malpractice insurance, that isn’t going to have an insignificant impact on what he has to charge all his patients.
How is that Grand Jury Report going? Is it being addressed? Is there a time limit for the fixes? How is that coming, and do they re-check to see if recommendations are being attended to in a timely manner? We need an update on the progress.
Mr. Rockwell, You must know that getting fired from the city is almost impossible and after 5 years you are qualified for bennies.
Thank you for your comments and numbers Mr.Pierini and to you to Tessy for your input. I agree we can’t keep kicking the can down the road and we need to put the lid on the cookie jar. But I feel the city needs to live up to it’s obligations to its past and current employees. If the city wants to re write their retirement package for NEW hires, I don’t see a problem with that. But I do see a problem with the city renegeing on a deal with current and former employees.
So where does it stop? Do we cut pensions and health care benefits for county, state and federal employees as well? Do we slash pay and benefits for the fire fighters who saved our town?
No one seems to bat an eye when they find out Exxon/Mobil pays zero dollars in income tax. Where’s the blame put for a faltering economy? Squarely on the shoulders of the middle class. Folks like you and me, people who actually build things, fix things,work in the stores, teach our children, grow our food, drive the trucks and all the rest of what makes this country function.
Just to clarify, I’ve never worked for the city, although I’ve lived here since before the city was incorporated. Ah, those were the days.
My advice? Cut some fat from the top. Quit hiring consultants for every darn thing the city does, build a break water to left side of the city boat ramp so the sand does’nt make it unuseable as it is currently, fill in the hole at stateline and start over, maybe an amphitheater or small park. These would all cost money but would generate revenue in the long term.
Don’t go after the guys that supervise the crews that mow the grass at the ball fields or the park maintenance crew that picks up the trash at our city parks and other facilities. Lets look at increasing revenue and building the economy, not constantly cutting the wages of those that can least afford it.
DW and isn’t that insurance companies making even more money? They are out of control. Actually they are in complete control and are not looking out for our best interest.
The BIGGEST reason public entities are in more trouble than the private entities is that when PUBLIC entities “sit down at the table to negotiate” both sides are dealing with somebody elses money (tax payers) When private entities sit at the table one of the parties is dealing with HIS/HER’S own money. When both sides are dealing with some body elses’ money no wonder salaries and bennies go up faster.
Get rid of the lawyers and insurance companies- If someone wants to sue a bankrupt municipality, I say let them- can’t get blood from a turnup
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments, Mr. Rockwell. Like you, I have never worked for the city, but I have been a long time resident of SLT (since 1968). I feel blessed to have been able to make my home in SLT, and have been happy and willing to make certain sacrifices associated with small community living.
I stand with you as well, Mr. Rockwell, in my appreciation of all the people who have worked and served in this community in one way or another. So many of us have spent lifetimes building homes and businesses and serving and contributing to a community we could be proud of; a place we could raise our kids, and a place we could work to secure a future for our retirement years.
City employees, firefighters, police officers, public works, etc…working and living alongside private sector employees in all walks of life. All of us striving for the same things…comfort, health, security, peace of mind, and a way of life unique to our beautiful town. All of us doing whatever we, as individuals, could to do to make our own dreams a reality. All of us…well most of us, seeking the good of others as we sought good will in our own lives.
Now things have changed in a tragic and shameful way. Not only do we have a national government that has turned on the working people of this country, but we have a local government that is doing the same thing. Whether private or public sector jobs, no matter how hard someone has worked, no matter how many sacrifices they made to save, no matter how carefully they planned for their future, we are hearing of plans by governmental powers to rob us of our livelihoods. Whether that livelihood comes from a retirement check or a paycheck, or a doctor bill being paid.
But what’s worse and is more shameful than anything any government can do to us is that we are seeing our own neighbors in our own town joining this immorality and choosing to turn on their fellow citizens simply because those citizens managed to have good jobs with good benefits they EARNED while working for this poorly managed city -a local government that is gearing up to renege on the written agreements made in good faith with its past employees, YOUR community servants. Wow.
Im sorry, but i think everyone who is ready to turn on the city’s retirees is immoral in their thinking regarding this issue. Immoral because they are not only willing for the city to steal from these retirees, but they WANT them to!
People WORKED for this city, and for it’s citizens! Paychecks were rendered for services rendered. Employees were not “given” anything more than anyone is “given” anything at any job they work at. Pay is earned. And the benefits are part of the pay package. To think that city employees doing their various jobs are less deserving of legitimate pay packages than any other working sector is jus wrong, and some misplaced and weirdo form of class envy.
Your argument might be to question what a “legitimate pay package” should be. That’s a fair and right question. A question that even our inept and near wholly corrupt city council researched (over and over and over again) so they could come up with reasonable and customary pay packages for the various jobs in the city. Employees did not come up with their pay scales or packages. Their employer, the city managers and city council did. Does anyone seriously think this group would willing overpay employees? Seriously? But besides that, employees had to agree to whatever was in the contract -good or bad, to be hired. The employees were fully expected to adhere to the terms of their employment contract. Isn’t it reasonable to expect the employer to do the same? Whether that employer is the City of South Lake Tahoe, Barton Hospital, or McDonalds. There is a moral code to life that reasonable people adhere to. Even employers.
Retirees of The City of South Lake Tahoe believed that their employer told them the truth about their pay and benefit packages, which included their retirement benefits. The city could have made different offers, and people could have chosen to not work for the city if those offers didn’t work for them.
Many people may not like it that city employees were promised good pay, or excellent benefit plans, or whatever (the amounts are not the point I am trying to make here). The point is, whether a job is in the private or public sector, doesn’t everybody want a good job with good benefits? Who goes looking for a cruddy job? So these retirees found good city jobs once-upon a-time, and now are finding out it was all just a fairly tale! Wow, that’s not only NOT fair, it’s outright thievery. And add insult to injury…these employees – who served this community for years, now have to read what selfish, jealous people write about how they don’t deserve, and probably never deserved what was agreed upon between employer and employee. So sad.
It’s shameful that people are jealous that their jobs did not afford them the good benefit plans others received. It’s even sadder, though, that instead of standing up for each other and fighting for everyone to get what they worked for, some of you would rather see another person hurt. Or in this case, lots of people hurt.
Bluestskyz, that’s all very noble, and was the way things use to be done in the past, but we have had some pretty bad changes to our society.
A promise is a promise, but what if we don’t have the money to pay for it? Shall we file bankruptcy? Should we raise everyone’s property taxes, and run some more people out of town, then raise them some more, since we’ve lost out on those peoples taxes?
Things change in a bad economy.
If you promised your wife a new car, cause she’s been driving the same one for 10 years, it’s just not going to happen.
If you were going to pay for your childs college education, but now can’t afford it, even though you promised it, you can’t do it, period.
I don’t think they are asking these people to give up their whole package, just to give some, as we are all hurting, and have all made adjustments, and sacrifices, some very big, think of others around this country and in our town who have lost way more than us.
I sure hope they are weaning future government employees off of this type of system, because obviously it’s not sustainable, and is an archaic system, that is pretty much unheard of outside of the government.
Just a thank you to Bluestskyz. Thank you for writing that excellent letter. You articulated exactly what I was feeling but did a much better job of it than I. Bravo! Keep ’em coming!
My heart goes out to the employees and the retirees of the City. Contrary to what some think, City employees are extremely dedicated to the community and work very hard in the face of constant criticism.
The retiree health insurance situation is particularly hard on those who began their careers in the private sector and contributed to Social Security for years. Those who later switched (mid-career) to work in the public sector essentially toss their Social Security benefits into the trash without realizing it.
That is because their earnings with a private sector, Social Security employer are in their early, lower earning years, and they typically don’t have a full thirty years of Social Security coverage. When they retire, their Social Security benefit is small, based on their lowest earnings, and the benefit is then reduced by sometimes $400 per month or more, which all but wipes out the benefit.
In addition, their CalPERS benefit doesn’t reflect a full length career, and their CalPERS benefit is also reduced by $133 per month because they previously worked for a private sector employer covered by Social Security. X-Local mentioned this in a post, and this affects more people than you might think.
These are the people who will be hardest hit by the changes to the medical plan. STPUD employees are not similarly affectged, beacause they are covered by both Social Security and CalPERS.
No matter what you may think of government employees, remember these are people who care about the community and have plowed your streets, cleaned your beaches and parks, performed CPR on your loved ones, etc. They did not cause the current economic downturn.
Clearly changes need to be made to the overall compensation stategy, but the retirees have few if any options to place themselves in a better situation.
In any case, please – stop the bashing. It is completely undeserved!
To Lou Pierini, City employes don’t peddle junk, that’s why they are entitled to benefits at retirement. They actually work very hard to serve the public.
To What??, Mr. Pierini runs a business that helps pay the bills of this community. Disagree with him if you so desire. But FYI, we need more entrepreneurs like him in town if we’re going to keep our City solvent!
And to Bluetstskyz, the length and thoughtfulness of your post indicates you care about the town. But to say that those who question the compensation of City Employees have ‘turned’ on them, or are ‘selfish, jealous people’, detracts from trying to solve the fiscal mess the City is in!
You’re correct in that promises made should be kept! If this is a violation of a commitment, then it should be taken to court! Otherwise, the City needs to be able to pay its bills. If that is through a tax increase, where I have to pay more, should I say the City employees have turned on me?
It would be great if everyone could make at least a 100k/yr., have full benefits, and no one has to pay anything to cover it! Yet we live in a world where we have to allocate financial resources the best we can. Intelligent people who care about their community can have different, healthy opinions on how that allocation should take place!
But it’s not selfish or jealous to point out, and most would agree I believe, that government entities are currently consuming, (especially considering our struggling economy, and a lot of it due to pretty generous employee compensation) an excessive amount of scarce financial resources!
Mr. Pierinni talks about people he know NOTHING about and jobs and lives he knows NOTHING about, as do you. If you folks want to have the City be solvent then ask why there is a cap on the BL fees. If Raley’s, McDonald’s, and other businesses that are making multi-millions of dollars annually and are only billed a maximum amount. You can’t make the City solvent on the backs of the very people that love to work for the City and spend their lives trying to bust their asses making an ugly City beautiful and trying to convince people off the street that the City is a great place to live and work. It’s become ugly, the hunchback of the Siera’s and and most importantly the most unfriendly, management power hungry place on earth. They can’t even hire a stupid janitorial service that doesn’t employ ex-convicts. Where on earth can you find a janitorial service that is allowed to clean a police station or a commercially certificated airport with a person with a conviciton record? South Lake Tahoe. God job.
Yes, I have a bone to pick.
So you believe, What??, that the answer is to raise more revenue. I disagree. Maybe we should increase the BL fee on Raley’s et al? But if we do, we should then cut the BL fee on small businesses by a corresponding amount. That’s my opinion.
But having different opinions doesn’t mean one should belittle someone’s business or say they know nothing because their opinion is counter to one’s own.
Intelligent, knowledgeable people who care about their town can have different views! Hopefully, all of us who fit that description can put forth their views in constructive ways. And somewhere in all our views we’ll be able to get the economy going, our town cleaned up, roads fixed and City solvent!
Admin, all I am asking is for you to intervene with What?? and ask if he can prove that the company he is talking about hires convicted felons. He is spouting a viscious rumor without “facts” that has been pointed out to some of my postings. I am asking that admin be fair in their requirements of rumors and personal attacks. Once again these postings have degenerated into personal attacks by anonoymous posters. My only hope is for them to attack LTN and then we will find out who they are but until then we must endure the dribble. As far as what the CM is doing he can do nothing without the councils approval and or direction. The CM was hired by the council to do exactly what he is doing which aggree with or not, should have been done a long time ago. I don’t aggree with everything he is doing on some of the personell he/council are choosing to eliminate but for the overall health and viability of the city as a whole I aggree. These are desparate times and drastic measures must be taken. For years upon years residents have clammored for something to be done and now that it is they want it to stop. Go figure.
Bum .. what are you attacking LTN about? Don’t you have a tree to cut down or something?
Admin What?? wrote;They can’t even hire a stupid janitorial service that doesn’t employ ex-convicts. Where on earth can you find a janitorial service that is allowed to clean a police station or a commercially certificated airport with a person with a conviciton record? South Lake Tahoe. God job.
sandy, nowhere did I attack LTN, I asked for a poster to say something about LTN that way we could find out who it is making false accusations as when LTN is attacked, at least they can defend themselves by finding out who it is and announcing it on the site. I don’t aggree with the process but I don’t own the site but do support it through the use of business’s that advertise here. Yes, I have several trees to cut down as a clear cut basin prevents wildfires, thank you for asking.
As far as the janatorial service, my son worked for them and he did not have a conviction record. That was a broad statement that blanketed all workers. I am asking What?? to narrow it down to a specific person so all the workers are not implicated. The service is out of Reno but they hire locally. Most everyone knows me and I think it is funny when an anonoymous poster, like sandy, trys to add a personal comment that has to do with my business when addressing me. Kinda like a neener neener or oh paleeze addition to their post lol.
O.k. So I know that for many of you I sound very much like Pollyanna. But I honestly believe in doing the right things, and that the two wrongs don’t make a right. That’s why I stand behind our retirees and our city employees. I know this country and our city is in a mess. We have places to legitimately place blame. But I don’t believe the blame lies with the retirees or the city employees. They are the scapegoats and are the ones who easiest to be made to take the fall. But I honestly don’t believe their demise will solve our city’s problems.
Tahoe Tessy asks the question “When people have medical emergencies that’s a terrible thing but why should I pay for someone else’s medical problems, and I do since I am the taxpayer.” It’s curious to me that you do not understand that YOU, as a taxpayer, will be bearing ALL the medical costs for every single, pretty much “no longer-employable” retiree who ends up 100% on Medicare after their health insurance benefits are terminated or made too costly for them to afford in retirement. Will our business owners like Mr. Pierini be able to employ all the old people so they can buy health insurance and not become another burden on the system? I’m just asking. Anyway, I guess I just don’t get your logic.
Tahoe Tessy says “I don’t see anyone come to my door and help me pay for mine [health insurance] when I’m sick.” Has it occurred to anyone who shares Tahoe Tessy and Parker’s feelings that these retirees never had anyone knocking on their doors to pay their health insurance, either? However, I can darn well guarantee many of them will be knocking on the door of the government tit if their health benefits get pulled out from underneath them. And guess what? At that point WE ALL PAY 100% for them, because many retirees won’t even be able to pay their deductibles or co-pays anymore. Where’s the savings then? They will simply be added to the scores of other people who pay nothing, and never have. Except there is one BIG difference between the retirees and the minions that get “free” health care (and every other benefit under the sun at no cost), it’s that the retirees actually worked their fannies off serving this community for those benefits…they worked for YEARS!
As for the “retirement pay” that people are earning, there’s a lot of confusion as to how that actually works. And I certainly don’t claim to be any kind of expert. But there are some things we need to consider when talking about the paychecks the retirees have earned. To say that our taxes are paying their retirement checks is not entirely inaccurate. My understanding is that the pension plans the retirees receive were paid into by those employees with THEIR OWN MONEY that was part of their salary, in addition to being partially funded with varying percentages by the city. All of which was agreed to at their time of hire, and was occassionally adjusted Z(either up OR DOWN) based on periodically negotiated terms.
In other words, a portion of the employee’s salary stayed with the city, and the city put that portion into the employee’s retirement plan via CalPers. These funds were banked against the beneficiary’s eventual retirement and are now paid out at scheduled intervals. The money that funds the retirees paychecks are wrapped in a complex investment structure with CalPers, and the public does not bare the greater cost because most of the funds necessary to pay for retirees future benefits are proceeds from investments by CalPers’ employee pension funds, and not the burden of the taxpayer.
Granted, the investments made by CalPers are circling the rim of the trash can along with the rest of our private investments. And while I imagine they are dancing as fast as they can to keep the system from going under, I’m quite sure they are having to make painful adjustments across the board to keep the taxpayers from having to bail them out like the taxpayers were forced to bail out private sector businesses (can we say GM?). This makes it obvious that cities and counties MUST require current and new hires to contribute MORE than past employees did to their retirement plans. I, like you, don’t see any other way as our economy struggles to stay alive.
Listen, I understand the concern for the staggering costs associated with things like pension “spiking,” fraudulent claims for disability benefits, and any number of despicable acts against the public interest by government employees working in every possible service. It’s shameful, yes, but certainly not limited to public employees by any stretch of the facts. Frankly, I don’t think we are dealing with a lot of those kinds of people when we are talking about our city employees. Yet, we all understand, and even the retirees that I’ve spoken with understand, that the idea that we can continue to increase benefits to public employees, and finance this through increased indebtedness and higher taxes is utterly unsustainable and morally bereft. But…
Dumping a city load of retirees into a virtually bankrupt and almost nonexistent national retirement (Social Security) and health care system is equally irresponsible and bereft of any moral dignity for any of us! We are talking about our neighbors here! It’s especially loathsome when you consider how most city retirees won’t even qualify for Social Security!
I agree with what Passion4Tahoe wrote:
“My heart goes out to the employees and the retirees of the City. Contrary to what some think, City employees are extremely dedicated to the community and work very hard in the face of constant criticism.
The retiree health insurance situation is particularly hard on those who began their careers in the private sector and contributed to Social Security for years. Those who later switched (mid-career) to work in the public sector essentially toss their Social Security benefits into the trash without realizing it.
That is because their earnings with a private sector, Social Security employe, are in their early, lower earning years, and they typically don’t have a full thirty years of Social Security coverage. When they retire, their Social Security benefit is small, based on their lowest earnings, and the benefit is then reduced by sometimes $400 per month or more, which all but wipes out the benefit.
In addition, their CalPERS benefit doesn’t reflect a full length career, and their CalPERS benefit is also reduced by $133 per month because they previously worked for a private sector employer covered by Social Security. X-Local mentioned this in a post, and this affects more people than you might think.
These are the people who will be hardest hit by the changes to the medical plan. STPUD employees are not similarly affected, because they are covered by both Social Security and CalPERS.
No matter what you may think of government employees, remember these are people who care about the community and have plowed your streets, cleaned your beaches and parks, performed CPR on your loved ones, etc. They did not cause the current economic downturn.
Clearly changes need to be made to the overall compensation strategy, but the retirees have few if any options to place themselves in a better situation.”
Lemme ask you all a question… Anybody remember playing “Lifeboat” in school? It was a group activity that had an impact on me when I went to the “Intermediate School” (Middle School) a million years ago. http://nicholasacademy.com/lifeboatgame.html. Anyway, in this current economic storm, after all the old people have been thrown out of the boat to make sure there is enough means for those who are considered more valuable, do any of us honestly think things will be better in this city given our current leadership? I mean, REALLY? Do we really expect that the sacrifices being planned for the retirees will make things easier on everyone else. Seriously? As far as I can tell, in the long run (or the short run, for that matter) hurting anyone at all helps no one at all. And trusting our city leaders to make even one decision to benefit the whole community would be a stunning accomplishment for them.
I honestly think that we would all be better served to come up with a plan to oust the current local administration and take back our community. As was suggest by TahoeGeo, maybe it’s not such a bad idea to become a town again with a real town council, and hook up with the population out in the county. I don’t know. But I do think there are lots of good ideas being tossed about by thoughtful people (like Mr. Rockwell) to make things better around here. Plus, I think there are a heck of a lot of people who would volunteer all kinds of services to make things work if they knew they could still keep their lives and jobs intact with dignity. What I do know for sure is that a house divided falls. And that’s what is happening to our beautiful community right now.
Oh… one more thing. Just to set the record straight for Tahoe Tessy about city workers not wanting to “give up one penny to save one job.” Don’t believe everything you read. I can’t speak for all the departments, but I personally know a fireman who offered to cut his job back to work HALF TIME to save the city money. And another fireman who begged to take a demotion, which, of course, equals a substantial pay cut and savings to the city. But the city would have nothing to do with it. Those people are simply being laid off – period. No voice & no place at the table. Nothing. And this should make some of you happy… they’re receiving no severance package, no buyout package, no option to buy into their retirement… nothing. Just a kick in the butt on the way out the door. I’m sure they will just go on unemployment like the rest of the city’s workforce that is being let go. And guess who pays for their unemployment? That’s right…the taxpayers. Anyways, I think it’s going to be very interesting around here to see the Police Chief run the fire department with no senior staff in the firehouses. No one will miss the recently fired Fire Chief, to be sure. And, frankly, no one will even notice things are different in the fire department. At least not until we see our non-fire trained Police Chief try to command a real fire. Better hope it’s not your house or the woods around it that goes up in flames. You might just be wishing you lived in the county.
Oops! Sorry for all the typos and confusing sentences. iPad auto correct and fast typing can get tricky on the iPad. Sorry!
Mr. Bum, I totally support LTN and I believe this article in particular was very timely and excellently written. The “accusations” that you mention are, or should be, public information. As long as the City did a formal bid for the janitorial services. Some folks aren’t able to disclose their identity due to the mob mentality in this town of people that have a difference of opinion.
I also liked the message from Bluestskyz that employees work hard, even if they have to admit they work for the City now. Days were that it was the first thing you wanted to tell someone, now, not so much. Retirees deserve their previously agreed upon benefits, it’s like telling you Mr. Bum that your business license is going to cost this amount and then some genius decides they want to charge you a different amount for the past 5 years. How would that settle in your stomach? It’s really a travesty what is happening and hopefully it will be resolved soon.
What? Mr Bum lol. I have been called a lot of things but Mr. Bum has never been one of them that’s a first lol. I was not making any accusations but merely responding to your statements that the janatorial service hires ex convicts as my son worked for them and I can assure you he was not a convict. My sttatements about ltn were in response to several previous comments I have made on this site and have been asked to refrain from making unsubstantiated rumors or accusations such as you did when you said that about the service without “facts”. I felt there should be a level playing field. Thanks for the Mr. Bum lol
Does anyone else think that lol is used way too much and usually not properly?