SnowGlobe angst, praise keep reverberating in South Tahoe
By Kathryn Reed
Balancing the needs of the environment, the economy and the residents was the overriding message delivered by seven people who spoke at the Lake Tahoe Community College board meeting Tuesday night about SnowGlobe.
The three-day music festival during New Year’s Eve weekend continues to be cursed by those who endured the loud music inside their homes and blessed by businesses that otherwise would have had little income without the influx of tourists.
These young professionals are a different crowd than the people who gather at Stateline New Year’s Eve. SnowGlobers have money to spend. The casino crowd is a lot of college students with little money.
SnowGlobe is making noise more than a week after the musicians left town. Photo/LTN
Jacob Hurd, president of LTCC’s Associated Student Council, rattled off a list of foreign passports he saw representing the diverse group at SnowGlobe.
“We brought a new group of tourists up here,” Hurd told the board.
The ASC plans to present the board or staff with recommendations for how to get students more involved and to make the event better if it were to return.
While the college could reap about $13,000 in cash – that goes to the general fund and not to Sacramento – this was a city event. The college made money by leasing the gym as the green room for performers and the student center/kitchen for meals to be prepared for concert workers.
The field’s ownership wasn’t uncovered until all the paperwork was being put together between the promoters and South Lake Tahoe. The California Tahoe Conservancy still has title to the multiuse ball field. The deed was never filed for the city to take possession of the property. That should be rectified soon.
The CTC did turn over operations of the field to the South Lake Tahoe Recreation Facilities Joint Powers Authority because it was money from Measure S that paid for the ball field. The JPA then turned over operations and maintenance of the field to South Lake Tahoe.
The city has controlled use of that field since it opened a few years ago. That is why the city is the one who had the permit with the promoters.
While the promoters would like to come back, no one has come to the city or college asking to do so. As of today, there is no August concert on the calendar – nor any other concert planned in the city for 2012 by anyone, according to city spokeswoman Nancy Kerry.
College President Kindred Murillo told the board if SnowGlobe or something like it were to come back to the field, she would like LTCC to be more of a partner. But she also said because the college doesn’t own the property, the city could do whatever it wants.
“When you are a partner in the process, you have more control,” Murillo said. “I feel we need more of a say in things.”
The three key things Murillo wants to be part of are transportation, noise and trash.
The latter two issues are what most of the people who spoke Jan. 10 complained about. Six people who live in the area mostly gave the board an earful about the noise they experienced, the vibrating walls and inability to escape the thumping bass.
Catherine Whelan let the board know people are talking with an attorney with the intent of filing a class action lawsuit against the city and college to cover damages from items that were broken when they fell off shelves or walls because of reverberation from the music produced at SnowGlobe.
“The entire inside of my house was vibrating,” Whelan said.
Murillo after the meeting told Lake Tahoe News this was the first she had heard of a lawsuit.
Kerry said, “SnowGlobe producers took out an insurance policy protecting the city, county, the college, CTC, and JPA. If there is any damage or problem, they would have to take it up with SnowGlobe.”
The college board members were a bit restrained in their comments about SnowGlobe at the end of the meeting. Fritz Wenck said the the closest he got was driving by. Others, though, praised the college staff for a job well done.
Murillo said if the city is going to do this again, she hopes they come asking for assistance soon so appropriate planning can begin.
Kerry said the council is not likely to have anything about SnowGlobe on a future agenda. When someone proposes an event, that’s when the ball gets rolling.
But the city is not waiting for the next event to even reach the idea stage before it makes changes. Staff met Tuesday to discuss amending its special use permit for events like SnowGlobe. Revisions would have to be approved by the City Council, which is likely to occur in March or April.
Noise and time elements, with specified penalties/fines will be part of that revised permit.
“The other thing is there will be an agreement between the city and producer, not just a permit,” Kerry told Lake Tahoe News. It will be a binding contract.
The South Tahoe Chamber of Commerce took a survey with the results showing SnowGlobe being a moneymaker as the overwhelming sentiment of business owners.
Lake Tahoe South Shore Chamber of Commerce this week put up a survey on its site that anyone may take.
“The positive impacts to businesses are indisputable,” Kerry said.
However, Tom Wendell told the LTCC board, “The short-term benefits do not outweigh the long-term detriments.”
Did Mr. Wendell detail the “long-term detriments”? Seems like one of them might be alienating any promoter from ever bringing an event to Tahoe again. I know there are plenty of people who would be pleased with that outcome. I know many more who would be disappointed.
In the early years, lots of SF residents had problems with Outside Lands and those folks worked with the promoters. Can’t we find a way to do the same? Can’t we all just get along?!
The end result sounds like more bureaucracy will be involved in future concert events. That does not bode well for the future. LTCC is talking about more control, though it is not on their property. The ASC wants to be involved, though it has nothing to do with the college. The city, being incredibly proactive, says that no one has contacted them, but that there will be more control. The title of the ballfield itself is still not filed appropriately demonstrating incredible incompetence in control. The business community is all for it regardless of the negative impact on the community. And Tom Wendell says that, overall, it was not beneficial to the city. I would guess that is because no bike trails were created during the concert. And now, rumblings of a lawsuit. This is going to end up like everything else… entirely too much trouble because of all the victims that need to have their hands held and the bureaucracies that have to be fed. They will starve the beast to death. We have met the enemy and it is us. Just my humble opinion.
Just one more thought. From the information presented, it appears that the city issued a permit for an event on property that they did not have legal title to? The lawsuit should be interesting if there is no clear title that defines exactly who is responsible. Very interesting. A lawyer’s dream as regards hourly billing…
Harry Truman once famously said “Your right to swing your fist stops at my nose.” Why doesn’t anyone get this simple concept. The selfishness and greed exemplified by SLT and too many of its citizens, along with the heck to people extremely disturbed by the greatly excessive volume of the music (noise) is pathetic. Bring it back but with the proviso to not violate any laws and to be neighborly.
Have you seen the soccer field? It needs to be cleaned because it looks like a dirty rug. You think the city will go over there and clean it? I doubt it. I hate to say it but if this event comes to the airport I’ll gather signatures for a lawsuit before they arrive. There’s more to life than money folks. A few of us live here for other reasons. There’s a group of us already prepared to gather signatures for an attorney. Don’t even think about it SLT.
Why do so many people in this town adopt such extreme positions of black and white with no middle gray area? This SnowGlobe Festival was the first attempt at bringing an event like this to our community and without a doubt it was problematic for some people while at the same time bringing much needed revenue to our local businesses and residents who operate those businesses and employ other residents. Instead of being so rooted in “my way is the only way” why don’t we learn from this and identify ways to make this type of event succeed to everyone’s satisfaction. Instead, it’s throw out the baby with the bathwater and no attempt at compromise. It is just this type of mindset that prevents progress at any level of government in our country whether local, state or federal. No wonder nothing gets done and we’re economically circling the drain.
Misguided Child, you are absolutely right. There are already two comments and the article that talk about lawsuits. Maybe, just maybe, there should be discussion before lawsuits. And the city, instead of waiting for someone to contact them, should be proactive and contact the promoters and start planning now.
Some of us don’t have time to attend all council meetings. An event with this type of loud music doesn’t work in an outdoor environment. Too bad the convention center idea was bamboozled due to no performance bond.
short term thinking limits marketing again. these facilities are public and not restricted to being used by a select group of ‘ball players’. this event brought a new and creative group with money to spend, not a bunch of the usual alcohol-fueled crazies. again, we live off tourist economy. that’s where the money comes from. everything else is a spinoff. move if you can’t handle it. frankly, this is as much a culture clash as anything.
Bob,
you are so right. There is more to life than money. We should just close the basin to all these outside tourists that come up here and want to spend their money. I mean, my GOD! have you seen highway 50? There’s cars everywhere! If those tourists even think about driving on our road then I’m gonna get a group together and sue!
Thank you Diane Hamilton. I read your opinion about the Snow Globe concert in todays (1-11-12) Tahoe Tribune. I agree with you 100%
I disagree with Diane’s opinion piece. The fact of the matter is that Tahoe is a resort playground. If I moved to Alturas I would expect quite. But this is a resort area and there are going to be concerts and noise and traffic. Tahoe is not a rural area. I think people move here because they want the benefits of the city, we do have grocery stores, but none of the burdens. well this is the wrong place for that. If you move to Sierraville, well there you have truly rural. Tahoe is not Sierraville or Alturas.
I hate not having spell check on this by the way.
E-dog – you hit the nail on the head. South Lake Tahoe’s primary source of revenue is from those tourists who enjoy our ski resorts, our lake attractions, our dining establishments – and yes, our SnowGlobe event. Our rapidly declining revenue sure isn’t from the locals who drive our roads in that are in disrepair due to lack of funding to shop at Costco and Wal-Mart down in Carson City for a better deal. Unless those complaining about a three-day festival have a better idea about how to realistically generate more revenue for this tourist-driven town, I suggest that they pipe down and remember the solitude that they enjoy the other 362 days of the year.
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN SO MANY —HOLES IN ONE SMALL TOWN?
SUE,SUE,SUE ,ALL YOU EVER READ,HEAR ROUND HERE!
SOME THESE PEOPLE NEED TO BUY A HOG FARM!
I’m trying to remember, what is that group that has stifled all progress, positive or negative, that uses lawsuits to force public policy? They are not generally liked by locals…
df, The League to Save Lake Tahoe.
Ive written several remarks about Snow Globe, and yes there were business that had better numbers in and around the Festival area, but lets do some other numbers. New Yrs usually attracts between 40,000-75000 extra visitors to this town. Lack of snow dropped some off, but anyone who thinks College kids who drink at Stateline have no money are badly misled. Anyone who has worked at the casino’s know these kids seem to have endless plastic. And they can afford the pumped up room rates our local motels & hotels go too. The town suddenly discovered different types of people follow different kinds of entertainment. DUH… the basic problem was the lack of communication between the City and Concert promoters to the locals who might be effected by this concert. I live in the closest neighborhood, where City parking placed signs saying you may park here with a permit. I don’t recall any city or Police Official coming to our neighborhood and informing those of us in Pioneer Village that we would be a parking lot for 3 days. Nor were we advised of what the sound disturbance would be like. Simple communication from the powers to be might have solved a lot of our complaints but NO noone came by.
Now we here the city doesnt have the Title to the field my god can this group of people running this town be more incompetent. If you want Snow Globe 2 do it right promote it yourself S.L.T. allow local bars-restaurants and business to run the concessions, communicate with the public about the event. Learn from your mistakes. Build an open and close Ampatheatre where the big hole is and you might actually do something right. as i said before Build it and they Will Come.
sex, drugs and rock&roll
food, Drugs and Whomp
the City needs to have regulations
for future events,
before something realy goes wrong
There is no denying the immediate but short-term economic benefits brought by SnowGlobe. In an ironic case of serendipity, this event pumped money into our community at a time of record low snowfall and high cancellation rates. The snow-free roads made travel easy and made the massive trash pick-up immeasurably easier by preventing the spring snow-melt mess that it could have been. It brought a diverse group of international visitors who will likely return. But…WILL they return if their bass-dominated music is turned down to avoid the massive sonic assault that many of us experienced? Perhaps the promoters can answer this.
The primary issue, as often stated, is the sound level and intensity. If this can be satisfactorily addressed, then more money-making musical (and I use that term very broadly) events can and should be held. Yes, many of us “older” folks are annoyed by this type of music, but so were our parents annoyed by our Rock n’ Roll. If the younger generation can enjoy their music without impacting us with a sonic barrage of infrasounds….go for it!
For those who dismiss the very real effects of infrasounds on people, pets, wildlife and structures, you need to educate yourselves on the science of acoustics. Here’s a primer:
Sounds consist of pressure waves. These waves of sound oscillate in the air. The number of oscillations (or cycles) that are made by a sound wave can be measured. The number of oscillations that a sound wave makes in one second is known as its frequency. Frequency levels are denoted by Hertz (Hz).
The typical frequency range for a subwoofer is between 20-200 Hz. Professional concert sound system subs typically operate below 100 Hz. Today’s ultra subwoofers can exceed that. Infrasound is generally classed as sounds below 20 Hz. Infrasound is generally inaudible to humans, unless at very high volumes. Even at very high decibels, infrasound will not be recognized as a sound. Infrasound is more commonly FELT. Infrasound is extreme bass. Here’s a short list of what these frequencies and decibels can do:
50 – 100 Cycles Per Second (Hz) – at 150 dB and higher, “intolerable sensations in the chest and thoracic region can be produced – even with the ears protected. Other physiological changes that can occur include chest wall vibration and some respiratory rhythm changes in human subjects, together with hypopharyngeal fullness (gagging). The frequency range between 50 and 100 Hz also produces mild nausea and giddiness at levels of 150 – 155 dB, at which point subjective tolerance is reached. At 150 to 155 dB (0.63 to 1.1 kPA), respiration-related effects include substernal discomfort, coughing, severe substernal pressure, choking respiration, and hypopharyngeal discomfort.” (source; ‘Acoustic Trauma: Bioeffects of Sound,’ by Alex Davies)
So why were some neighborhoods disproportionally affected? There are many factors that affect the propagation of sound waves including: topography, temperature, humidity and even building construction. Wooden houses have higher sound pressure levels (highest level > 100 dB) than concrete structures.
While there is a lack long-term, peer-reviewed studies on this subject, the sheer number of people reporting similar, negative effects from infrasounds is overwhelming. Even sources we might consider benign like wind turbines have generated complaints and law-suits. I for one will not wait for the endless studies to confirm what we logically know is true (remember the tobacco industry debacle?). Enough on that….do your own research.
In closing, I suggest that if any property paid for by our property tax dollars as in Measure S (now measure R) is used like this in the future, the rental fee should go DIRECTLY into the JPA administered fund to repair/enhance ball fields and bike paths which have proven, long-term economic benefits without the disruption. I also want to remind everyone that considerable time and money were spent on producing studies that resulted in the Basin Prosperity Plan which calls for enhancing visitor services, green practices and health and wellness. That type of tourism is low-impact and sustainable. The sonic and trash impact of this event are NOT sustainable. The attraction to this kind of music will fade….the timeless assets of our lake, forests and wildlife will not….IF we protect them. Have the concerts at a reasonable sound level but focus on what is truly unique to our region for long-term economic stability.
Well I think the robot is correct on this one, the issue is noise. If they solve this issue there is not much left to complain about. I live as close as anyone to the sound and it didn’t bother me, but I,am just one.
Regarding an earlier post by me where I called censorship – I was wrong – it was not censorship it was a misunderstanding and a over reaction on my part.
I don’t know Kea but I do think she does a dam good job keeping an even keel in ruff seas.
Unless merchants participating in the survey by the Chamber of Commerce specifically asked each customer if they were here due to Snow Globe, the survey on Snow Globe’s impact on local business New Years weekend is largely irrelevant.
The New Year’s holiday at Lake Tahoe fills up every year, with or without snow, and with or without Snow Globe. In fact, gamblers and non-skiers have an easier time getting here with no snow, according to the casinos.
Steve that is not true. Economists look at same store sales as a relative baramoter of retail sales and have for decades. That is a valid and accepted measure of economic impact of special events, both positive (Snowglobe) and negative (hurricane Katrina).
The way I see it, this is a ‘principles’ issue.
It’s your government stuffin down your throat what they want you to swallow.
If it’s good money for the government – both the college and the city, they don’t care what the community thinks – they need the dough –
Now shut up and take it!
Who would expect anything else from such a government run community?
Don’t get me wrong,
I support more live events and concerts and live music in Tahoe. What I don’t support is government selectively ‘exempting’ what they want from the rules and regulations the rest of the citizens have to abide by.
Think about that from a ‘principle’ point of view…
Absolutely, PubWorks. It all depends upon WHO is breaking the rules, and which palms have been greased prior. Like you, I have no personal complaint against SnowGlobe. I hid and was not inconvenienced in any way. But I remember when I did live in town, and had to tolerate the weekend chaos in the nearby party houses, knowing that Sunday they’d be gone. Part of the reason I moved out to the county.
Either there are rules/laws/sound ordinances, or there are not. In reading the city manager’s glowing account of the weekend, I notice he didn’t mention that HE was away in Colorado, so has no firsthand knowledge of what it all sounded like. Events ARE good for our town. Selective rule enforcement is not.
I have not been member of any chamber for at least 12 years so you know as a 40 year voter and 12 year non member of any chamber their survey means little to me.
So curious what would folks be saying if we had received record level snow during this event that caused it to be cancelled (can you say Amgen?). I think we’d all be saying “what a stupid time of year to even think of holding an OUTDOOR concert”. Really? Who thought that one up? Brilliant. I believe that we got SUPER lucky and it didn’t snow (secretly I wish it had) but it didn’t. This City can hardly handle another embarassing episode like Amgen again. How much did the businesses in the City lose on that ill-planned event? Seriously, whom ever thought this would be a good idea clearly hasn’t been listening. Good job.
O’Rourke was there Dec. 31. Snow would have muffled the sound. THat would have been a good thing. It snowed all last year at the Colorado event and no one cared. When it snows it is warmer than 15 degrees. Amgen was a LTVA event. Other rental fees for Measure S paid for venues don’t go to the JPA, why do it now?
Well, 10,835 is a lot of days but do you think things are better now than they were 30 years ago? i.e. 1982
First of all, not all business had a record weekend! Many in fact had a down New Year’s Weekend! If some that catered to the SnowGlobe clientele did, good for them! But that was not everyone.
After watching the City Council meeting on the concert, I now see what people are talking about when they refer to the “Uber Smug CM”, aka Mr. O’Rourke! His dismissive attitude towards the complaints does not give me faith the issues will be addressed the next time!
You said it dogwoman, either you have rules/laws/sound ordinances, or you do not! Can I now throw whatever party I want, or rent out houses to whomever I want? And then send out robcalls to the community to not bother me about it?! Or is the City immune because they make the rules and they’re making the money off the event?
10,585. Welcome, newcomer.
The music was way over this town heads,intellect.
Thanks Mr. Wendell for the sound wave lesson. Has anyone reported permanent hearing loss? Still not sure what you mean by long-term deteriment and how they outweight the short-term benefits.
for all of you folks that have comments here I would like to invite you to go with me next summer to
Squaw’s- Tuesdays Blues Days
Tahoe City’s -Sunday in the Park
Sand Harbor’s- Bluegrass festival
Harvey’s- Summer series
then you could see how other people have successful events
A event that brings in new money to our struggling town. We got no snow and your bitching about noise for a weekend. Give me a break!
O’Roarke AKA rule bender.
Good to see that you have a calculator Lou. Who’d have thunk it? And yes, actually, things were much better back then. Just waiting until the kids graduate and go to college then on to Santa Cruz. I’m exhausted being here and just want to live and work and be happy. This place is a drag any more with a few exceptions. With the Devil at the helm of the City nobody is safe, even his sidekick’s that he flies to destinations to search out event happenings on the taxpayer dollar. It will come to an end eventually, just hope I’m not here to see it.
to dumbfounded: thanks. to Chief: those events are all during the late Spring and Summer months, when most of the residents are outside doing things, the sounds of summer prevail. The sounds of winter are NOT a 120 decibel concert that reverberates throughout the entire basin, period, finished, overdone.
And to AKA: rule bender? How about “I know what the rules are but I don’t give a rats arse, you will do my bidding or I’ll fire you because the City Council will back my every decision”. I’ve heard him described by a lot of folks as “the cleaner”.
And to Parker and everyone: Did you see how the CM holds his middle finger up while cradling his head in his hand during the council meeting when responding? That’s a purpose, not an accident. Very professional. It’s like chewing gum while on camera.
Funny, last poster must have struck a chord. Hahahaha.
1080 maybe you would like to go anyways and get out of the rut that you live in,
have a good time and see something different
Hey Chief, I have no plan to associate with addicts and acid freaks, frankly. Ask about all the hypodermic needles, glass, and acid hit applicators left behind. What’s that gonna cost us when the field needs to be replaced? You want your kids playing out there in the spring/summer barefoot? I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. At least if the concert were conducted indoors the left over crap could be swept up and disposed of properly instead of being embedded in the soil for future users of the facility to step on and get sick (possibly).
And, the event distuputed the “quiet enjoyment” of all of the residents that don’t buy in to the BS theory that anything for a buck is worth a little (or a lot) discomfort.
This isn’t over. The repercussions will continue for some time, I suspect, and the folks that will be left holding the proverbial bag will be the one’s that stayed behind and rode it out. Yee haw.
well said Krista!!! I feel heartsick for the children that will be playing in the snow on those fields all the while not knowing what lurks beneath them! Isn’t it a pity??!!!
“Ask about all the hypodermic needles, glass, and acid hit applicators left behind. ”
Really? Were there these things left behind? Cause I didn’t see anything like this while attending all 3 nights.
I thought I was pretty educated about drugs and paraphernalia, but what is an acid hit applicator?
Thanks icky. Funny handle. Haha. Where were they? On the ground, stepped on. Acid hits are now being applied to one-time use toothbrushes. the little ones that you carry around in your purse, wallet, etc. Like you, I was unaware of the new ways dealers are getting their product to our children.
10835, If I needed a calculator I would not post. Just the facts. i.e. Check the record on my comments about the city, they will show I sues them 2 times. I don’t have kids in santa cruz, and even if I did, so what?
Back in the day we did acid on blotter paper.
A little dot.
Good stuff you could cut a dot into 4 parts for sharing. We called it 4-way.
No mess.
Now cities like SLT even throw a party for the druggies.
…. what can ya say? They need the money.
Maybe someone should check and see if the city made a large purchase of tooth brushes lately.
They are desperate for the money.
What is Lou smokin? I don’t get it.