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Its a great idea, It will remove blight and add some much needed energy to the area. I am tired of all these NIMBYs wanting SLT to stay the same.
Mike McKeen says - Posted: May 30, 2012
We are not nimbys, we are long term residents, property and business owners that took risks, pay taxes, and support South Lake Tahoe. We want to be included and have freedom to remodel. This project is flawed and needs to redesigned to benefit SLT. 65 million (loop road cost) would be better used to improve from Stateline to the Y – SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, not Stateline, NV.
Old Long Skiis says - Posted: May 30, 2012
The loop road project is a bad idea. Before I go into why, perhaps a little personal history is in order to back up my claim.
My family moved to So. Shore In 1962 and bought a motel on Hwy. 50. I was 8 years old, I’m now 58 and still live here after all these years. My folks owned several business’ over the years, all right on 50.
I learned years ago that, like it or not, Hwy. 50 is the lifeblood to this little town.When 50 is closed due to a landslide(83?)the town was hurtin’ for certain. Anyone remember 5 cent beers at the Nugget that winter?
So the point I’m trying to make is that by circumventing a portion of So. Shore not ony displaces lots of residents but will really hurt local bussiness who rely on that steady stream of visitors and locals alike.
Years ago there was a plan to turn Pioneer Trail into four lanes and bypass So. Shore completely. It was never approved and all those old motels, resturuants and shops continued to thrive.
Fast forward to the era of re-development. Everything is concentrated at stateline with a underutilzed parking garage and on top of that a huge eyesore, “The Hole”. Lots of motels a gas station, some resturauts all taken over by eminent domain
demolished,…and for what? A couple of blocks of over priced stores that butt up next to the casino corridor.
So to the TTD please don’t strangle this little town any further. We’re barely makin as we are now . Thank you for your time
Take care, Old Long Skiis
Don’t remember the 5 cent beers but going every other night to the Sage room for two for ones dinners was affordable.
Also the closed roads provide us with no traffic to gas yourself skateboarding the double yellow lines for miles.Noticed the other day coming back from valley in Nevada they are already doing more repair on the highway by Glen Brook where the other road had its slide.
Loop road at this time just seems to mix up what’s already in motion here with redevelopment.
With the kind money they are talking here why not invest in a rail system to from the y area,turn the airport into a parking lot?
Waste of money and resources, those being better utilized elsewhere in our community.
buster57 says - Posted: May 31, 2012
this just seems to benefit the casinos which are a thing of the past. starting from the airport one of the entrances to lake tahoe how many run down motels are there is that really a way we want visitors to come into lake tahoe. we need to focus on making it a hiking,biking,camping,stand up paddle destination. has anybody really looked at the vacant buildings and how terrible the grounds look. it just says dying townand we are concerned about building a road to benefit nevada,as well as having a huge hole in the ground which should be dealt with before any loop road. i think we need to look at the big picture here and long term restoration of beautiful lake tahoe.
Tahoan says - Posted: May 31, 2012
Before anything else gets demolished, THAT hole needs to be corrected.
And if they really want a loop, try using existing roads: going east drive through HV development and going west drive down past Edgewood to Stateline Blvd. But really think that this would strangle the life out of the rest of the businesses along the 50 frontage.
No. Just the mention of it creats a cloud over properties in the area that lowers their value. The project could take years, if it ever happens, and property values will be lower than today. Its a talking of private property to the benifit of nv. interst. Greco was right, lets vote now and get it resolved. To delay is defeat and that is what some council members would like, so people like me would go away and they can approve this Nv. interest based project.
No. Of the 100 business displaced by the ski run and park avenue projects there is only one left. This has not and will not work for small business.
Careaboutthecommunity says - Posted: May 31, 2012
Huge cost, and doesn’t clearly solve any traffic issues, just creates a park for the casinos, not a bad thing, but not at that cost, let them create their own parks in their parking lots.
There are very few traffic jams ever, to warrant this project based on traffic.
There should be an effort to create a pedestrian friendly “downtown” area where people could experience something different and fun. Everyone saw the disaster closing the core did . We should find a way to allow for a festival feeling up here like the efforts on ski run with farmers market and food and wine walks. More outdoor venues and not another crap fair. How many more of the same old thing can we allow?
It is my impression there would still be at least two lanes running thru stateline even with a loop road?
Who wouldn’t agree there are priorities way ahead of the loop bypass. Why so long to figure out thr TAHOLE? because so many property owners are involved that also got screwed and still are waiting to get paid. Our track record is tarnished and now RUSTED with that obvious blunder. Anyone think the Heavenly village is a bad thing? If rent was more reasonable there would be less empty store fronts and locals would be seen more if the parking garage was not as costly.That project is classy and works.
I feel it is not so much about the NEVADA side dominating improvement proposals as it is residents wanting ALL of Tahoe to be improved like our “LAKEFRONT COMMUNITY PARK”.
jenny says - Posted: May 31, 2012
Use Pioneer as the main Hwy 50 (people already use it to avoid traffic, so why not embrace it). Call the current Hwy 50 “business loop”, and make this route BIKE FRIENDLY. Have Pioneer hook into the road behind the casinos.
I prefer cities that have bypass options. It tells me there will be less traffic in the heart of town. I stay away from congested cities, and will not go to a business if it means sitting in traffic. When the Hole is developed, there will be more traffic.
If we focus on attracting people for our best assets (outdoors, mountain beauty, recreation), and our city planning reflects that, they will come down off the bypass and stay. I agree that the loop road mostly serves the casino corridor (which is far from pretty).
If it’s true that a large amount of traffic in the city is just trying to get across town without stopping, then allow them a bypass.
North Shore has horrible traffic–without any easy way to bypass it. South Shore has that option, and I’m not sure why we didn’t follow through with the plan.
P.S. I’d like to hear what the Chamber discovers on their trip to check out cities that overcame traffic problems. Sacramento has a bypass and business route that works great. They also have an awesome uninterrupted 32-mile scenic bike path along the American River.
lou pierini says - Posted: May 31, 2012
very bad look above
biggerpicture says - Posted: May 31, 2012
Ask business owners on 395 through town in Carson City how the new freeway bypassing the downtown corridor has worked out for them so far (well, the ones that are still in business!)(and from the look of all the commercial vacancies on that corridor my guess is not so good).
another ex. south virginia st. through reno after 395 bypass.
jenny says - Posted: June 1, 2012
Carson City doesn’t have an amazing draw, of a mountain-lake town with scenic views, to the business corridor like South Lake Tahoe does. For a fair comparison, think Old Sacramento (it’s a destination), Truckee (off the main highway), Carmel, and Mendocino. These towns would be ruined if the highway went right through the middle of them. Charming and quaint. We don’t need to be a town depending on a highway because we offer majestic scenery and awesome recreation.
lou pierini says - Posted: June 1, 2012
Tahoe City looks real, with Hy. 28 going right through it. Everyone in favor of this loop rd. is a paid gun or has some other $$$$$ interest in the project.
Bob says - Posted: June 1, 2012
I think it’s a bad idea because I don’t see how it will bring additional income into South Lake Tahoe. Projects like these cost taxpayer dollars we don’t have available. Europe is crashing and guess what? We’re next! This recession or depression is far from over folks. Any money put aside should be saved for what’s coming down the pike. Our largest source of revenue – property taxes will continue to head south for at least the next 3 years in my opinion. Say NO to the loop road!
Gloria Harootunian says - Posted: June 3, 2012
The Village shopping area with its mixed use design and pedestrian friendly walking and meeting areas will be the model for the retail segment of the planned loop road design.One problem here is that many retail shops in the Village are barely hanging on financially and few are making money. Duplicating the Village will take business away from the Village but there won’t be enough business to support a second Village type development.
As one speaker at the City’s work shop commented, the South Lake Tahoe can’t be all things to all people. We have to know who and what we want to be.
I would like something authentically Tahoe and that is what Ski Run with its locally owned shops restaurants and farmers market day is struggling to become. Ski Run is centrally located, appeals to both visitors and locals because it is real. The views are wonderful and there is beach access. With ferry service it is a public transportation hub. Lets focus and put our eggs in that basket!
Lets not use eminent domain to ruin the lives of individual residents and successful businesses that have been a part of our community forever. For another slab of fakery that can barely support its own weight?
Not Born on the Bayou says - Posted: June 4, 2012
I favored the general idea of a loop road until I read about the displacement impact on local businesses and residences. As a frequent visitor, to me the loop road is more about encouraging a resulting pedestrian friendly village atmosphere that makes you want to linger around it than about traffic congestion, along the lines of what Jenny’s saying in that regard.
What I’d like to see are some other options considered that might not impact the California side businesses much. Here’s a few ideas, with no concept on my part if they’re logistically feasible:
Leave the road as is, but landscape the hell out of both sides to make it attractive as possible given the throughway. Build pedestrian walkways over the casino area in Nevada and let them figure out how to make both of their sides more village/pedestrian oriented on their side of the state line.
Focus the California side walkable village aspect on connecting Heavenly, which is nice enough already for that, with development in the Hole, that should be scaled down from the convention concept.
Develop the Hole as a combination of small inns, plazas, park land with running water fountains, recreation facilities (including an outdoor rec center magnet facility that consolidates indoor climbing walls, outdoors classes, mountain biking center, tour companies, an REI type facility, etc.). Connect the Hole area with great landscaped walkways and bikeways to the lake and to Edgewood – something I think is planned anyway.
Provide a pedestrian overpass or similar from Heavenly to the newly developed Hole as well, when that finally gets underway. Use the money that would have gone to the Loop for really nice pedestrian overpasses, so well designed and aesthetically appealing that they become attractions in and of themselves, with viewing bays, etc. and separated bikelanes. Maybe even seasonal snackbars or food carts within a wide walkway structure on the overpasses.
On top of everything else, enforce clean up of the signage and appearance of all businesses along 50, with some subsidy assistance if necessary. Make the area so it connects well on both sides, has as wide of sidewalks as feasible, and is an interesting draw in itself, even without just expecting it to become a retail haven – hopefully that will follow.
JoAnn Conner says - Posted: June 5, 2012
Interesting when people compare Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe.
Sacramento: currently approx 449 THOUSAND people; unemployment rate 13.4%
South Lake Tahoe: currently approx 23 thousand people,; unemployment rate 13.10%
TheTruth says - Posted: June 6, 2012
Before the City of South Lake Tahoe provides another subsidy to the Stateline casinos and Douglas County, they should help pay for our airport. It exists primarily to shuttle high-rollers past South Lake Tahoe to the Stateline casinos, where they drop their dollars (and gambling taxes) before getting a ride back to our airport and out of town.
Every time a plane take off or lands, it costs the City of South Lake Tahoe money that could have been used to fix roads, or hire police or firemen.
Casino operators argue that the border is an artificial line that means nothing. However, when it comes to contributing to the airport, the border is the Berlin Wall.
James R. says - Posted: August 15, 2012
“South Lake Tahoe is a gem of America that is waiting for private enterprise to invest in these mountains (Its been recently called most beautiful lake in america). The loop road idea is already a stepping stone for gentrification. With every other part of the country in a horrible mess Tahoe becomes a tourist hot spot. If it wasnt for tourism we wouldnt have the hours the majority of the residents work (not saying this is a good thing). And with the self destruction of most American cities I wouldnt be surprised if the casinos, city council, state of California and Nevada, ski resorts and private businesses turned this small town into a growing city with low income housing for the working residents , large luxurious condos for the rich, and more lavish casinos just to add more fuel to the tourism industry.”
In other words, Slaves to serve the rich while they vacation…if the rich don’t think of us like that already.
James R. says - Posted: August 15, 2012
I don’t care about tourists wanting to enjoy the natural beauty of tahoe…But I can’t stand the crowd of people the casinos and big business bring. It poisons the community with big rich cats vacationing and looking to build in tahoe because its a gold mine….In 5, 10, 20 or even 100 years when the lake has turned a dull brown and the wild animals left because these’s no fish. When there are no tourist anymore, then everyone will look towards the east and see our symbol of prosperity….Harrah’s and Harvey’s.
Diverting the life-giving blood to the community (traffic) around the back of the Stateline casinos is like diverting blood from the heart and then saying it’s a good thing. It, in fact, really does not make any sense and neither does a Loop Road. However, it is also quite obvious to any casual observer that Stateline, which could be a world-class, picturesque lovely mountain/lake town, has deteriorated to a mostly seedy, dirty, garbage strewn shanty town constricted by impossible building and/or renovation requirements (which is why it remains a shanty-town). It is obvious that something has got to be done, but not a Loop Road. A plan to house and hide all the filthy, smelly dumpsters that are now the prominent residential feature of most Stateline residences would be a great start. Pedestrian overpasses, improved landscaping, improved parking so the businesses that are hanging on can improve, which will attract new business to fill up the blighted vacancies, now so abundant. Make building codes that will allow property-owners to improve the properties they own now rather than feeling they cannot fight city-hall so they allow them crumble around their ears. South Lake Tahoe is, afterall, a “vacation destination” and the economy will improve if the vacation abodes are improved. Use the “Loop” money to make these types of improvements but don’t take away what’s left of the life-giving traffic and move it into the pristine forest.
Careaboutthecommunity says - Posted: October 30, 2012
Donald, you hit the nail on the head. I assume you do not live her, so this is good honest insight into how we are perceived by others.
Thanks TRPA, & League to Save Lake Tahoe for your part in this, stagnant crumbling properties, no new development, Business & job loss, and departing families, shrinking of the town, until it is almost a ghetto, but backed by a lovely lake, nice…Good Job
John says - Posted: October 31, 2012
A basic of debate is to answer the question “why.” So Donald goes to great length to say a loop road makes no sense. But the crux of his arguement is that it makes no sense. Well it makes sense to a lot of us. “Why?” Well because then you remove a U.S. Highway from the middle of the entertainment district and then have the ability to have music festivals, farmers markets, car shows, etc, etc. None of which is possible today. I am particularly curious why building a loop road prevents people from cleaning up dumpsters. It seems like that is Donald’s arguement.
lou pierini says - Posted: October 31, 2012
The loop road is stupid. More business for NV. and less business for CA. and people displaced from their homes. Does that make sense John?
Careaboutthecommunity says - Posted: October 31, 2012
If they want to give the Loop road a shot, go ahead, but we are not pulling eminent domain on anyone, commercial or residential.
The people who want this can go out and negotiate to gain the land they need, and fund it themselves.
John says - Posted: October 31, 2012
It makes more sense than your arguement Lou. Let me be specific. Gambling is diminished. It always will be. Therefore we should take some action to create entertainment opportunities. That can be accomplished by removing the state highway from the middle of the entertainment district and then having events that draw people. I would recommend looking at ArTown in Reno as a model. But Snowglobe would be fine, jazz festivals and the like. Now what cannot be solved is preventing people from staying at the Casinos. I know this is JoAnn’s big deal, but yes Nevada will benefit. California will as well, probably primarily California, but there is no doubt Nevada will benefit. So if Nevada benefiting is your worst nightmare, well then sorry. But there is no doubt that many mountain towns across the west have been immensely successful with this model. Telluride, Grand Targhee, Jackson, Vail…all have a focus on summer events.
Lou, I am a lot of things, stupid ain’t one of them.
John says - Posted: October 31, 2012
One more point. We do not have excess capacity for a lot of what draws people to Tahoe. We dont need more people on mt. bike trails, they are already hammered. There is no more parking at Emerald Bay trailheads. There is no more parking anywhere actually. So trying to sell more outdoor recreation is going to be tough. We need to replace hundreds of thousands of visitor days and we cannot do that with the current infrastructure for outdoor recreation. Nobody has a plan to change that.
lou pierini says - Posted: October 31, 2012
John, Take a look at downtown Reno Sacramento, Monterey ect. redevelopment has failed there and has failed here. Monterey has be at it for 35 years (1977) and there are still vacant lots. There attorney was our next city atorney. Special interest are not stupid and I did’t refer to you that way.
lou pierini says - Posted: October 31, 2012
Talk to TPRA for more coverage at places you mentioned, and you will get more parking.
It’s very instructive that a question of the week from May of this year still has legs as evidenced by these recent postings. Perhaps last nights public input session at LTCC on Loop Road alternatives has something to do with it?
In any case, the Loop Road debate is a major topic here in SLT and one that (along with the Hole and general transportation woes) presents an opportunity for not only much needed change, but actual transformation. Making the transition from a struggling, partially deteriorating mountain resort stuck in a 70’s time warp that has lost what was once its’ primary economic driver (gaming) to a re-envisioned, outdoor recreation / special event / green technology / health and wellness dominated resort of the 21st Century is bound to generate some widely divergent opinions.
One thing is certain…we cannot simply go with the status quo. It should be abundantly clear to everyone who has interest in the future sustainability of the Lake Tahoe Basin and SLT in particular, that a transition to a more viable and sustainable economic and environmental model is both mandatory and inevitable.
Those who advocate for small, incremental or virtually no change are simply not seeing the big picture. Change IS the only constant in life and change has been difficult to come by in these parts due to a combination of the poor planning of the past combined cumbersome, often conflicting regulations of the more recent past and present. The need to change that has been recognized by virtually all stakeholders (citizens, visitors, governments, agencies, business and environmental interests). While our competitors for tourism are busy reinventing themselves, we are still squabbling over how or even if to evolve.
If these and other critical issues and challenges confronting the Lake Tahoe Basin concern you and you have some constructive, solution-oriented ideas to share, I invite you to weigh in on a newly launched blog: Transforming Tahoe. The purpose of the blog is to gather community sourced ideas to address the problems and challenges that confront the entire basin. Whether it’s about the Loop Road, the Hole, Homewoood Ski Area expansion or proposed bans on plastic shopping bags in SLT, please share your ideas at: transformingtahoe.blogspot.com
Its a great idea, It will remove blight and add some much needed energy to the area. I am tired of all these NIMBYs wanting SLT to stay the same.
We are not nimbys, we are long term residents, property and business owners that took risks, pay taxes, and support South Lake Tahoe. We want to be included and have freedom to remodel. This project is flawed and needs to redesigned to benefit SLT. 65 million (loop road cost) would be better used to improve from Stateline to the Y – SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, not Stateline, NV.
The loop road project is a bad idea. Before I go into why, perhaps a little personal history is in order to back up my claim.
My family moved to So. Shore In 1962 and bought a motel on Hwy. 50. I was 8 years old, I’m now 58 and still live here after all these years. My folks owned several business’ over the years, all right on 50.
I learned years ago that, like it or not, Hwy. 50 is the lifeblood to this little town.When 50 is closed due to a landslide(83?)the town was hurtin’ for certain. Anyone remember 5 cent beers at the Nugget that winter?
So the point I’m trying to make is that by circumventing a portion of So. Shore not ony displaces lots of residents but will really hurt local bussiness who rely on that steady stream of visitors and locals alike.
Years ago there was a plan to turn Pioneer Trail into four lanes and bypass So. Shore completely. It was never approved and all those old motels, resturuants and shops continued to thrive.
Fast forward to the era of re-development. Everything is concentrated at stateline with a underutilzed parking garage and on top of that a huge eyesore, “The Hole”. Lots of motels a gas station, some resturauts all taken over by eminent domain
demolished,…and for what? A couple of blocks of over priced stores that butt up next to the casino corridor.
So to the TTD please don’t strangle this little town any further. We’re barely makin as we are now . Thank you for your time
Take care, Old Long Skiis
Don’t remember the 5 cent beers but going every other night to the Sage room for two for ones dinners was affordable.
Also the closed roads provide us with no traffic to gas yourself skateboarding the double yellow lines for miles.Noticed the other day coming back from valley in Nevada they are already doing more repair on the highway by Glen Brook where the other road had its slide.
Loop road at this time just seems to mix up what’s already in motion here with redevelopment.
With the kind money they are talking here why not invest in a rail system to from the y area,turn the airport into a parking lot?
Waste of money and resources, those being better utilized elsewhere in our community.
this just seems to benefit the casinos which are a thing of the past. starting from the airport one of the entrances to lake tahoe how many run down motels are there is that really a way we want visitors to come into lake tahoe. we need to focus on making it a hiking,biking,camping,stand up paddle destination. has anybody really looked at the vacant buildings and how terrible the grounds look. it just says dying townand we are concerned about building a road to benefit nevada,as well as having a huge hole in the ground which should be dealt with before any loop road. i think we need to look at the big picture here and long term restoration of beautiful lake tahoe.
Before anything else gets demolished, THAT hole needs to be corrected.
And if they really want a loop, try using existing roads: going east drive through HV development and going west drive down past Edgewood to Stateline Blvd. But really think that this would strangle the life out of the rest of the businesses along the 50 frontage.
No. Just the mention of it creats a cloud over properties in the area that lowers their value. The project could take years, if it ever happens, and property values will be lower than today. Its a talking of private property to the benifit of nv. interst. Greco was right, lets vote now and get it resolved. To delay is defeat and that is what some council members would like, so people like me would go away and they can approve this Nv. interest based project.
No. Of the 100 business displaced by the ski run and park avenue projects there is only one left. This has not and will not work for small business.
Huge cost, and doesn’t clearly solve any traffic issues, just creates a park for the casinos, not a bad thing, but not at that cost, let them create their own parks in their parking lots.
There are very few traffic jams ever, to warrant this project based on traffic.
There should be an effort to create a pedestrian friendly “downtown” area where people could experience something different and fun. Everyone saw the disaster closing the core did . We should find a way to allow for a festival feeling up here like the efforts on ski run with farmers market and food and wine walks. More outdoor venues and not another crap fair. How many more of the same old thing can we allow?
It is my impression there would still be at least two lanes running thru stateline even with a loop road?
Who wouldn’t agree there are priorities way ahead of the loop bypass. Why so long to figure out thr TAHOLE? because so many property owners are involved that also got screwed and still are waiting to get paid. Our track record is tarnished and now RUSTED with that obvious blunder. Anyone think the Heavenly village is a bad thing? If rent was more reasonable there would be less empty store fronts and locals would be seen more if the parking garage was not as costly.That project is classy and works.
I feel it is not so much about the NEVADA side dominating improvement proposals as it is residents wanting ALL of Tahoe to be improved like our “LAKEFRONT COMMUNITY PARK”.
Use Pioneer as the main Hwy 50 (people already use it to avoid traffic, so why not embrace it). Call the current Hwy 50 “business loop”, and make this route BIKE FRIENDLY. Have Pioneer hook into the road behind the casinos.
I prefer cities that have bypass options. It tells me there will be less traffic in the heart of town. I stay away from congested cities, and will not go to a business if it means sitting in traffic. When the Hole is developed, there will be more traffic.
If we focus on attracting people for our best assets (outdoors, mountain beauty, recreation), and our city planning reflects that, they will come down off the bypass and stay. I agree that the loop road mostly serves the casino corridor (which is far from pretty).
If it’s true that a large amount of traffic in the city is just trying to get across town without stopping, then allow them a bypass.
North Shore has horrible traffic–without any easy way to bypass it. South Shore has that option, and I’m not sure why we didn’t follow through with the plan.
P.S. I’d like to hear what the Chamber discovers on their trip to check out cities that overcame traffic problems. Sacramento has a bypass and business route that works great. They also have an awesome uninterrupted 32-mile scenic bike path along the American River.
very bad look above
Ask business owners on 395 through town in Carson City how the new freeway bypassing the downtown corridor has worked out for them so far (well, the ones that are still in business!)(and from the look of all the commercial vacancies on that corridor my guess is not so good).
another ex. south virginia st. through reno after 395 bypass.
Carson City doesn’t have an amazing draw, of a mountain-lake town with scenic views, to the business corridor like South Lake Tahoe does. For a fair comparison, think Old Sacramento (it’s a destination), Truckee (off the main highway), Carmel, and Mendocino. These towns would be ruined if the highway went right through the middle of them. Charming and quaint. We don’t need to be a town depending on a highway because we offer majestic scenery and awesome recreation.
Tahoe City looks real, with Hy. 28 going right through it. Everyone in favor of this loop rd. is a paid gun or has some other $$$$$ interest in the project.
I think it’s a bad idea because I don’t see how it will bring additional income into South Lake Tahoe. Projects like these cost taxpayer dollars we don’t have available. Europe is crashing and guess what? We’re next! This recession or depression is far from over folks. Any money put aside should be saved for what’s coming down the pike. Our largest source of revenue – property taxes will continue to head south for at least the next 3 years in my opinion. Say NO to the loop road!
The Village shopping area with its mixed use design and pedestrian friendly walking and meeting areas will be the model for the retail segment of the planned loop road design.One problem here is that many retail shops in the Village are barely hanging on financially and few are making money. Duplicating the Village will take business away from the Village but there won’t be enough business to support a second Village type development.
As one speaker at the City’s work shop commented, the South Lake Tahoe can’t be all things to all people. We have to know who and what we want to be.
I would like something authentically Tahoe and that is what Ski Run with its locally owned shops restaurants and farmers market day is struggling to become. Ski Run is centrally located, appeals to both visitors and locals because it is real. The views are wonderful and there is beach access. With ferry service it is a public transportation hub. Lets focus and put our eggs in that basket!
Lets not use eminent domain to ruin the lives of individual residents and successful businesses that have been a part of our community forever. For another slab of fakery that can barely support its own weight?
I favored the general idea of a loop road until I read about the displacement impact on local businesses and residences. As a frequent visitor, to me the loop road is more about encouraging a resulting pedestrian friendly village atmosphere that makes you want to linger around it than about traffic congestion, along the lines of what Jenny’s saying in that regard.
What I’d like to see are some other options considered that might not impact the California side businesses much. Here’s a few ideas, with no concept on my part if they’re logistically feasible:
Leave the road as is, but landscape the hell out of both sides to make it attractive as possible given the throughway. Build pedestrian walkways over the casino area in Nevada and let them figure out how to make both of their sides more village/pedestrian oriented on their side of the state line.
Focus the California side walkable village aspect on connecting Heavenly, which is nice enough already for that, with development in the Hole, that should be scaled down from the convention concept.
Develop the Hole as a combination of small inns, plazas, park land with running water fountains, recreation facilities (including an outdoor rec center magnet facility that consolidates indoor climbing walls, outdoors classes, mountain biking center, tour companies, an REI type facility, etc.). Connect the Hole area with great landscaped walkways and bikeways to the lake and to Edgewood – something I think is planned anyway.
Provide a pedestrian overpass or similar from Heavenly to the newly developed Hole as well, when that finally gets underway. Use the money that would have gone to the Loop for really nice pedestrian overpasses, so well designed and aesthetically appealing that they become attractions in and of themselves, with viewing bays, etc. and separated bikelanes. Maybe even seasonal snackbars or food carts within a wide walkway structure on the overpasses.
On top of everything else, enforce clean up of the signage and appearance of all businesses along 50, with some subsidy assistance if necessary. Make the area so it connects well on both sides, has as wide of sidewalks as feasible, and is an interesting draw in itself, even without just expecting it to become a retail haven – hopefully that will follow.
Interesting when people compare Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe.
Sacramento: currently approx 449 THOUSAND people; unemployment rate 13.4%
South Lake Tahoe: currently approx 23 thousand people,; unemployment rate 13.10%
Before the City of South Lake Tahoe provides another subsidy to the Stateline casinos and Douglas County, they should help pay for our airport. It exists primarily to shuttle high-rollers past South Lake Tahoe to the Stateline casinos, where they drop their dollars (and gambling taxes) before getting a ride back to our airport and out of town.
Every time a plane take off or lands, it costs the City of South Lake Tahoe money that could have been used to fix roads, or hire police or firemen.
Casino operators argue that the border is an artificial line that means nothing. However, when it comes to contributing to the airport, the border is the Berlin Wall.
“South Lake Tahoe is a gem of America that is waiting for private enterprise to invest in these mountains (Its been recently called most beautiful lake in america). The loop road idea is already a stepping stone for gentrification. With every other part of the country in a horrible mess Tahoe becomes a tourist hot spot. If it wasnt for tourism we wouldnt have the hours the majority of the residents work (not saying this is a good thing). And with the self destruction of most American cities I wouldnt be surprised if the casinos, city council, state of California and Nevada, ski resorts and private businesses turned this small town into a growing city with low income housing for the working residents , large luxurious condos for the rich, and more lavish casinos just to add more fuel to the tourism industry.”
In other words, Slaves to serve the rich while they vacation…if the rich don’t think of us like that already.
I don’t care about tourists wanting to enjoy the natural beauty of tahoe…But I can’t stand the crowd of people the casinos and big business bring. It poisons the community with big rich cats vacationing and looking to build in tahoe because its a gold mine….In 5, 10, 20 or even 100 years when the lake has turned a dull brown and the wild animals left because these’s no fish. When there are no tourist anymore, then everyone will look towards the east and see our symbol of prosperity….Harrah’s and Harvey’s.
Diverting the life-giving blood to the community (traffic) around the back of the Stateline casinos is like diverting blood from the heart and then saying it’s a good thing. It, in fact, really does not make any sense and neither does a Loop Road. However, it is also quite obvious to any casual observer that Stateline, which could be a world-class, picturesque lovely mountain/lake town, has deteriorated to a mostly seedy, dirty, garbage strewn shanty town constricted by impossible building and/or renovation requirements (which is why it remains a shanty-town). It is obvious that something has got to be done, but not a Loop Road. A plan to house and hide all the filthy, smelly dumpsters that are now the prominent residential feature of most Stateline residences would be a great start. Pedestrian overpasses, improved landscaping, improved parking so the businesses that are hanging on can improve, which will attract new business to fill up the blighted vacancies, now so abundant. Make building codes that will allow property-owners to improve the properties they own now rather than feeling they cannot fight city-hall so they allow them crumble around their ears. South Lake Tahoe is, afterall, a “vacation destination” and the economy will improve if the vacation abodes are improved. Use the “Loop” money to make these types of improvements but don’t take away what’s left of the life-giving traffic and move it into the pristine forest.
Donald, you hit the nail on the head. I assume you do not live her, so this is good honest insight into how we are perceived by others.
Thanks TRPA, & League to Save Lake Tahoe for your part in this, stagnant crumbling properties, no new development, Business & job loss, and departing families, shrinking of the town, until it is almost a ghetto, but backed by a lovely lake, nice…Good Job
A basic of debate is to answer the question “why.” So Donald goes to great length to say a loop road makes no sense. But the crux of his arguement is that it makes no sense. Well it makes sense to a lot of us. “Why?” Well because then you remove a U.S. Highway from the middle of the entertainment district and then have the ability to have music festivals, farmers markets, car shows, etc, etc. None of which is possible today. I am particularly curious why building a loop road prevents people from cleaning up dumpsters. It seems like that is Donald’s arguement.
The loop road is stupid. More business for NV. and less business for CA. and people displaced from their homes. Does that make sense John?
If they want to give the Loop road a shot, go ahead, but we are not pulling eminent domain on anyone, commercial or residential.
The people who want this can go out and negotiate to gain the land they need, and fund it themselves.
It makes more sense than your arguement Lou. Let me be specific. Gambling is diminished. It always will be. Therefore we should take some action to create entertainment opportunities. That can be accomplished by removing the state highway from the middle of the entertainment district and then having events that draw people. I would recommend looking at ArTown in Reno as a model. But Snowglobe would be fine, jazz festivals and the like. Now what cannot be solved is preventing people from staying at the Casinos. I know this is JoAnn’s big deal, but yes Nevada will benefit. California will as well, probably primarily California, but there is no doubt Nevada will benefit. So if Nevada benefiting is your worst nightmare, well then sorry. But there is no doubt that many mountain towns across the west have been immensely successful with this model. Telluride, Grand Targhee, Jackson, Vail…all have a focus on summer events.
Lou, I am a lot of things, stupid ain’t one of them.
One more point. We do not have excess capacity for a lot of what draws people to Tahoe. We dont need more people on mt. bike trails, they are already hammered. There is no more parking at Emerald Bay trailheads. There is no more parking anywhere actually. So trying to sell more outdoor recreation is going to be tough. We need to replace hundreds of thousands of visitor days and we cannot do that with the current infrastructure for outdoor recreation. Nobody has a plan to change that.
John, Take a look at downtown Reno Sacramento, Monterey ect. redevelopment has failed there and has failed here. Monterey has be at it for 35 years (1977) and there are still vacant lots. There attorney was our next city atorney. Special interest are not stupid and I did’t refer to you that way.
Talk to TPRA for more coverage at places you mentioned, and you will get more parking.
It’s very instructive that a question of the week from May of this year still has legs as evidenced by these recent postings. Perhaps last nights public input session at LTCC on Loop Road alternatives has something to do with it?
In any case, the Loop Road debate is a major topic here in SLT and one that (along with the Hole and general transportation woes) presents an opportunity for not only much needed change, but actual transformation. Making the transition from a struggling, partially deteriorating mountain resort stuck in a 70’s time warp that has lost what was once its’ primary economic driver (gaming) to a re-envisioned, outdoor recreation / special event / green technology / health and wellness dominated resort of the 21st Century is bound to generate some widely divergent opinions.
One thing is certain…we cannot simply go with the status quo. It should be abundantly clear to everyone who has interest in the future sustainability of the Lake Tahoe Basin and SLT in particular, that a transition to a more viable and sustainable economic and environmental model is both mandatory and inevitable.
Those who advocate for small, incremental or virtually no change are simply not seeing the big picture. Change IS the only constant in life and change has been difficult to come by in these parts due to a combination of the poor planning of the past combined cumbersome, often conflicting regulations of the more recent past and present. The need to change that has been recognized by virtually all stakeholders (citizens, visitors, governments, agencies, business and environmental interests). While our competitors for tourism are busy reinventing themselves, we are still squabbling over how or even if to evolve.
If these and other critical issues and challenges confronting the Lake Tahoe Basin concern you and you have some constructive, solution-oriented ideas to share, I invite you to weigh in on a newly launched blog: Transforming Tahoe. The purpose of the blog is to gather community sourced ideas to address the problems and challenges that confront the entire basin. Whether it’s about the Loop Road, the Hole, Homewoood Ski Area expansion or proposed bans on plastic shopping bags in SLT, please share your ideas at: transformingtahoe.blogspot.com