South Lake Tahoe council wants environmental study of loop road
By Kathryn Reed
Will a loop road beyond what exists today ever be built is a question to be answered on another day. What the South Lake Tahoe City Council on Tuesday night decided is that the environmental process needs to move forward.
After four hours of input from the community, the project engineer, the financial consultant and the council, the vote was 4-1, with Councilwoman Angela Swanson the dissenter, to take it to the next level. The motion was to recommend to the Tahoe Transportation District board members that at their April meeting when they are expected to vote on what to include in the EIR-EIS that they include the following alternatives: the two triangle proposals, no action, and a fourth to be determined by the TTD board that is not the proposal that they first talked about. Transit is also to be incorporated into one of the alternatives.
Swanson wanted the TTD suggestions to be studied plus the 2004 alternative A to provide more variety.
Loop road project manager Mark Rayback talks March 12 to the South Lake Tahoe City Council. Photo/Kathryn Reed
She is the city’s rep on the TTD board. Swanson assured everyone she would vote the conscious of the council at the TTD meeting.
While the council recognizes the need for change, they aren’t convinced the loop road is the change that is needed. But they also don’t believe now is the time to stop progress.
They worry about how businesses that are barely hanging on will be able to endure three-plus years of construction, how deliveries will be made to existing businesses if the front and back of centers change, if people will bypass Heavenly Village if the highway no longer takes them directly in front of it, and if this is the best idea for the city.
Mayor Tom Davis is tired of consultants saying X number of dollars will come to town if the council builds something and then the city winds up in debt over unrealized promises.
For more than 30 years people have talked about having Highway 50 go behind all the Stateline casinos or on one side and making the current highway a city street that would be narrowed, have a reduced speed limit and be able to be closed off for events.
(The TTD presentation will be on the city’s website. It includes historical alignments that have been studied, the ones TTD staff favors, along with information about the economic study that was done.)
The proposed preferred alternative by Tahoe Transportation District staff.
It’s estimated it could take up to two years for the final environmental documents to be done. Through that process there will be more opportunities for public input.
Of the 23 people who spoke March 12, 11 were in favor of a loop road, eight against the project and four took no distinct position. In the latter category is Tahoe Crescent Partners, owners of the Village Center.
Mark Rayback, project engineer with Wood Rogers, said it’s possible an all-season bridge could be built to cross over Highway 50, if it goes on the mountain side, to take people to Van Sickle Bi-State Park.
It’s possible Stateline Avenue could be three lanes by using the right-of-way that exists. This way during special events the traffic could be two lanes in the direction with the most vehicles.
The second triangle proposed route.
Vision. That is the word that was used the most.
Many speakers embraced wikeable, a word coined by City Manager Nancy Kerry at last week’s economic forum. It’s walkable and bikeable all at the same time. That is one vision.
Complete streets. This would bring sidewalks, lighting and landscaping.
Community. It would better erase the state line, thus tying the South Shore together, with the goal of creating a place for locals that tourists want to visit.
Environment. It would reduce traffic congestion, increase air quality, retain the same number of streets (so nothing more is being paved, it would just be repurposed).
A big vision goes beyond talking about the highway, but looking at four to five blocks deep at what the “tourist district” could evolve into.
Having signs telling people where things are, allowing easy crossing of the roads, transit that is reliable and better access to the lake are all components of the vision.
Good job TTD at finding all the people you did to show up and speak. The fact that they were all very well spoken and prepared even though most if not all have no property being taken or even live in So. Lake Tahoe makes me ask, How much did you pay them? Is Nevada waiting for the loop road to happen before they clean up the stretch of road between Mt Blu and Kingsbury Grade across from Edgewood? No sidewalks, just dirt and weeds and chain link fence. Take a look next time you drive, ride or walk by. SLT can stand to loose 90+ properties, 5 businesses and three motels, Nevada will not be loosing one square inch of property, not one business, not one hotel. This does not sound like a good partnership. I agree there are a lot of things can be done to improve our town however, we must be careful not to create another ice rink, parking garage or hole in the ground, I trust our city counsel will make the right choice.
2004 Alternative A is basically the same as the TRPA alternative which they ruled was environmentally detrimental to the Lake. Their environmental analysis selected Plan D which is the routing behinf the casinos.
Additionally, for every route presented last night which took traffic closer to the Lake, the TTD representative commented that by putting the highway between the core center and the Lake it did not achieve the goals. It did not open the path between the core center or new “main street” and the Lake.
Why are we wasting money redoing what was decided before?
Without a loop road, South Lake Tahoe will continue to flounder in its past. The need to move forward is paramount. Mayor Davis says he is tired of consultants saying x number of dollars will come to town? Then why do the council members keep spending city revenue on them.
Don’t be afraid of change. Not all changes are bad things. Yes, there will be some business changes. Will they be for the better? We will not know unless we try.
I was there last night
the vibe in the room was terrible
so I got a copy of the TTD report and wemt hone
$70,000,000.00 could be better spent on improving the rest of Lake Tahoe Blvd.
not just the new street (HalCole Way)
This from the same people who bumbled the “Hole” at Stateline… Why should we have any faith at all in these people? We can’t even maintain the roads we have and these guys are spending money like a high schooler with daddy’s credit card.. I know: Let’s hire another consultant to see if we need to hire a consultant or not… Please, this is a joke and so is this city council. These people cannot not to be trusted again with powerful tools like emminent domain. Angela is the only one worth even having there. Special interests and the good ole boy network is very much alive. Perhaps it’s time for another grand jury investigation into the council.
Grand construction projects are good for cities. Why don’t you finish the last one that you started before starting another one? Just sayin’.
Relativeyly new to this, but let me get this straight. After all of this is done, there is, in all proposals, still a big street going down the middle of town, where it is now?? So, 50 just gets a little smaller in town and bigger around back? Sounds like very little change, for what is amounting to tons of angst, money, years of time, & disruption. Pretty scary to listen to.
Chief, they don’t even have the 70 million and Caltrans is working on the rest of hwy 50 next year they are redoing another portion from the y to trout creek. Mike the loop road is not a council project but rather the TTD project.
My problem with this presentation is that there does not seem to have a traffic study down that tells us what the current car count is going thru the core area and how many are continuing on past the casinos, along with what the car counts would be going thru the core area after the change.
Also they keep putting into their studies that the city has 5400 hotel and motel rooms that are being used for or vacationing visitors, we don’t! There are over 900 rooms that are either closed or are being used for long term stays and 1500 rooms that are timeshare units. You cant put timeshares in the mix when you are calculating occupancy rates as during peak times they are being used by their owners. So the occupancy rates true percentage is probably closer to 55% not 40%
Time to embrace change folks. The end goal of this project will greatly improve the main drag which has been sorely in need of a redo for a long time. Maybe the “vibe was terrible” because so many of you have focused only on the negative instead of having hope in a much needed project finally coming to realization.
It is amazing how the city of South Lake Tahoe gets rolled time and again.
The benefits and the pain are so unequally distributed in these plans that it is laughable.
All the talk about recreation and promoting the natural beauty of our area is being used to promote a self-serving facelift for Stateline.
I can hardly wait for them to close hwy 50, Pioneer Trail and the side streets all at the same time.
With any luck the cement and pavement will fail quality control and require the entire project to be redone a couple of times.
I bet they turn traffic into to a living hell for a decade or two.
It will be the worlds most expensive pot of chili.
All the whining and naysaying about this project is no less self serving than those supporting the project but have nothing to lose. The fact is this broader area is dying a slow and nasty death and SOMETHING must be done about it. The City Council showed flashes of vision last night and this is what this town needs most. The way TTD rolled out this project was unfortunate and left the City Council in a terrible position – without a clear and precise vision for the Core Tourist Area. It is going to take a lot of hard work by this Council to ensure that a vision IS developed for this area and that this project is completed according to that vision with as little pain as possible by the residents, businesses and landowners directly affected. This Mayor and Council have little choice and need our support.
The city or EDC should open their own environmental office. It probably would be much cheaper than hiring out all the time.
The Only Study Needed is their HEADS!
PLEASE LET THE COUNTY TAKE OVER SO AT LEAST WE GET DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
Agreed Tuffy. There is a vision to help restore the area to what it should be. Tahoe was built on, and survives today because of tourism. And truth is tourism and business is down all across the board and isn’t getting better any time soon. If nothing is done, the area will continue its decline and then these very same naysayers will then be complaining about the area’s blight because stores, shops, and businesses will be going belly-up. Those that sit around dwelling in negativity, griping about the current state of things, as well as any future plans to bring forth positive change offer nothing to a community that wishes to evolve. Time to evolve south shore. Get with it or move on.
Let’s have the County takeover. Whether it’s Douglas or El Dorado County they will have the best interests of all our citizens and workers as their #1 priority!
Funneling all the money to the 1%ers is our only chance for some crumbs. Wake up peons!
The negative pessimists who complain about anything and everything are really tiresome. This City didn’t get in its physically and economically rundown condition overnight; this took a substantial amount of time. The longtime pessimists who have lived here are the people responsible for electing the majority of the former decision-makers who apparently sat around on their hands when times were good and never thought or ever planned for a time when the Casinos wouldn’t be drawing the bulk of money to this community. Doing more of what the pessimists want, which appears to be nothing, won’t even keep this town even, it will make it go backward so far that there won’t be any hope of saving it. We can’t go back 20, 30, or 40 years–the past is the past and those days are gone. We need new thinking to fix this town, and maybe some of the negative pessimists could try offering up something positive for a change instead of continual criticism.
Let’s make a loop road plan that has the Calif. side be the overwhelming beneficiary of all the improvements, tax money and profit with traffic filtered toward the Heavenly Villages-Gondola, the new and improved Ski Run Blvd., the Harrison Ave. El Dorado Beach projects and on down to the Y revitalization. I’m all for progress.
South Lake Tahoe has gone through several financial bases of existence. We did not begin as a tourist area. Rather the first establishments were created to sevice the needs of the mining industry in Virgina City as well as the “truck” (wagon) traffic from the East to the West. People like Billy Lapham built hotels, fishing docks, livery stables along Hwy 50. Lakeside Park, Bijou, Al Tahoe were establsihed to make money from this traffic. When that industry died out, land was subdivided and sold to attract summer visitors. Lakeside Park was the first subdivision established in 1909 and we’ve expanded from there. Still this was a summer attraction. Winter access was only avaukabke through steamship to Lakeside Pier until the 1930’s when the road was paved from Placerville and later when the Cave Rock tunnels were built. The casinos arrived in the 1940s. I’m not certain when Ski Run Blvd was the first South Lake Tahoe ski area which has lead to Heavenly. The original hotels have been replaced by new ones with few exceptions. Doc’s cottages from the 1930’s is still here. There are many cabins built in the 1920s which still exist today. The South Lake Tahoe pier (Lakeside Pier) was removed in the late 40s or early 50s and lakeside transit was ended in favor of the highway. The casinos have expanded and recently begun contracting (The Nugget is gone, Barney’s is gone, the Horizon is dying). Heavenly is tring to expand.
What is next for us? We should embrace the evolutions and see how we can support them to our benefit.
All you knuckleheads out there, we don’t need to change the highway to to make positive change. Have any of you ever had property taken by use of emanate domain? I have twice ! It’s not pretty. So until you can speak from experience instead of ignorance or brainwashing, get out of our town, get off our ski runs, get off our streets, get out !!!! We all want change for the good of all, not the good of a few. Good thing none of you are on the city counsel or there would be many more holes in the ground !
The Boomers got old,times have changed,people are fat,lazy,normal For now days,,people are tired for a reason,use to be taking a ride was fun, now gas cost so much so people stay home more,there’s more online freaks than ever, TV with 1000’s of channels to watch,maybe,just maybe no matter if we had a dozen loops, 1000 hotels,best food in the world, people just don’t have extra money spend anymore.
More people than ever live and flock to the cities.
No railroad,no airplanes, no buses, no huge modern highways,weather,EPA COPS ,NO FREE CAMPING,NO FREE FISHING,NO FREE PLACES TO PARK,NO OPEN PUBLIC BATHROOMS IN THE WINTER(COPPER DISSPEARS)Wonder why?
Why hassle that?
TIMES ARE CHAGIN ………..
IN GOOD TIMES PEOPLE BLOW MONEY, IN BAD TIMES PEOPLE TRY PAY THE BILLS ,EAT.
MAYBE TRUTH TOO MUCH TO HANDLE NOW DAYS,LOST FORTUNES,HIGH HEALTH CARE,DOLLAR WON’T BUY XXXX!
BY THE TIME THEY EVEN STARTED BUILDING THE LOOP ROAD SOMETHING ELSE MORE IMPORTANT COME ALONG THIS BE UNIMPORTANT, WASTED TIME.
THE FIRST PLANNED LOOP ROADS LOST STEAM, NO REASON WHY THIS ONE DO THE SAME.
CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN YOU GET THERE.YOU WANT GET THERE BAD ENOUGH ,YOU’LL GET THERE.
MAYBE PEOPLE ARE JUST BURNED OUT ON TAHOE!NOT IMPOSSIBLE FOR WHATEVER REASON.
BEING IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME IS SUCESS,MAYBE THIS WRONG TIME,PLACE,IN TIME?
Peoples ideas of mountains are streams,fishing,bbq, cottages,cabins,no traffic,swimming,sitting around a camp fire at night with no lights in view,……Tahoe one big traffic jam and the roads aren’t fit for wagon train, they bug you death for a sell.
Montana here we come!
33 year local:
Your following comments are quite revealing:
“All you knuckleheads out there……get out of our town, get off our ski runs, get off our streets, get out!!!!”
While you may be a 33 year local you don’t own this town. If ownership was based solely on longevity then my wife would own a lot of California since she’s a 63-year old 4th generation born Californian.
Your above remarks are indicative of what’s wrong with the mindset of a lot of people who remain stuck in the past. The past is done and gone, just like the vibrant good days of youth. It’s time to figure out new ways of doing things if you want to keep moving forward.
Well Said usmc. This is not a bad plan overall and the resulting outcome should be amazing.
Putting all our eggs(and money) in one basket(Stateline) is not “new ways of doing things”. Critical comments by people who have seen the results of counting on the Nevada side to trickle down profits from their business ventures to the benefit of So. Lake Tahoe, Ca. and it’s citizens are legitimate imho.
Being stuck in the past would be falling for this sales pitch… again.
The continual cheerleading for these failed concepts instead of embracing ideas that are actually new and sustainable is what is really tiresome to me.
Oh the wacky negative ramblings of conspiracy theorists and beatnik poets who live to defy “the Man” and his plans at every turn. If all who support change got out of what you call “your town”, off of “your streets”, and off “your ski runs”, then you would have to learn to be happy and content living in a ghost town. You’d rather have a national landmark and tourist destination die and drift in obscurity all so you won’t be inconvenienced. The majority consensus is this meeting went extremely well, and people are excited and looking forward to this project being brought to realization. If you don’t like it, then maybe Montana is the place for you.
If the “hole and convention center” could have been finished and look like the other side of the street I do not think we would be talking about a loop road. Spend the 70,000,000 on the hole and that side of the street and the city would be all in.
TRPA does not have eminent domain power for a reason!!!
Mayor Tom Davis is tired of consultants saying X number of dollars will come to town if the council builds something and then the city winds up in debt over unrealized promises.
Well Tom,There are some different consultants out there beside Carl the number games know it all!
Who keeps hiring him anyway?
Consultants give U the results U paid for.
Hiring a consultant is not such a bad idea. These homegrown inepts fail to make good decisions because they don’t know what life is like off this mountain. Examples include that hole in the ground (which is an elephant in the room), and now the stalled Al Tahoe project. Oh and lets not forget the airport saga that lasted how many years? I’ve said it before and I will keep saying it. That council is comprised of a group of ignorant people who are making decisions based on tourism and yet have no experience anywhere else. Does this make sense? Gee, let’s just keep voting in the same inept people and yet expect different results.
For individuals who may not be aware, the Harrison Avenue Improvement Project is going to begin this spring and Owens Financial, the majority owner of the “hole” site properties (20 of the 28 properties) is looking to start construction May 15th this year. This information has been stated at more than one City Council meeting.
Owens Financial has begun the process to begin construction of some stores along Stateline and Hwy 50 before June.
My question is why would this construction be approved without an overall plan to develop the rest of the property?
In any case they aren’t building a convention center that I’ve heard.
How about hiring a consultant to hire a consultant? Makes perfect sense, right? I wish I could get in on this scam but was told here awhile back I needed 8 years of college to become knowledgeable in the art of consulting, as if such a thing was even attainable for a man of modest means and poor intellect like myself.
Of course I’m being facetious im my above statement but do we really need a 70 million dollar loop road?
Hurting local businesses, emminent domain with people losing their homes, and for what?
Couldn’t that money be better spent on sidewalks and lighting from stateline to the “Y”? How about doing something, anything with “The Hole”? What an eyesore that is!
For 70 million we can get South Shore lookin’ real good. Who knows ?, maybe we’ll even attract new investors and we will see our local econonmy revive.
Let’s put money into fixing up South Shore. Skip the consultant! Consult the public taxpayers!! Hire more Police, Firemen and city workers. Refurbish the recreation center, build at LEAST one more public park and fix the city boat ramp. Recreation is where it’s at and if this community is going to survive then thats what we need to persue.
El Dorado beach is a perfect and positive example of what can be done here. There are a lot of people with great ideas here to benefit ALL of us in SLT.
Take Care, Old Long Skiis
OLS – sidewalks are coming this summer, thanks to the collaboration of the City and CalTrans.
JoAnn, do you know why the lighting that has already been installed along the completed portion of the walkway isn’t bring illuminated?
JoAnn Conner and Mandy Kendall,
JoAnn, sidewalks are really cominig to South Shore? If this actually happens it will be a big improvement of what we’ve had forever. Mostly dirt, mud in the summer and snowbound, icy paths in the winter.
What’s next? Forcing property owners along 50 to clean up the exteriors of their buildings and seel their driveways with a fresh coat of tar along with new stripes for parking?
I hope the sidewalk project uses local contractors as they certainly need the work!
Mandy Kendall,
Your piece on bartering is right on the spot. I don’t know if this is considered bartering or sharing, but last summer this guy rode up on his bicycle while I was working in my vegebtale garden. He said he always rides by and checks out my garden, (it’s close to the road so it’s easily seen from the street). We exhanged names, shook hands and I invited him into the garden come and pick some snow peas, green beans or anything he wanted. He paused and said he’d be right back. A short time later he pedals back and hands me 4 sandwhich bags of herbs he grew in his yard,rosemary, thyme,oregano and mint. He started pickin’ some stuff from my garden. Tomatos, lettuce, green onions radishes… and he was smilin’ from ear to ear. He said”my wife is gonna love this, fresh food from right here in Tahoe”.
So Mandy, I don’t if this falls under the definition of bartering , .What I do know is that I met a cool person thats growing herbs in his backyard. This year I’ll try going herbs.
You’ll be surprised what happens when you plant a garden. Grow your own food and maybe meet new people and if you have the space, make it a neighborhood garden where everyone is welcome to plant, pull weeds and enjoy the fruits of their labor. OLS,(Farmer Bob)
Tahoeadvocate:
Since Owens Financial owns 20 of the 28 parcels at the convention center site, which is roughly 72 percent, their construction involvement is limited only to the areas they own. It’s up to the remaining owners to either sell or develop as they choose. But why would anyone want to delay development on 72-percent of that site until whoever owns the remainder makes a decision on the disposition of those parcels? Commencement of 72-percent of that development is huge, and after all the complaining everyone’s done I would have thought people would be happy to see that starting.
Also, the final plans haven’t gone before the City Council thus there’s been no public disclosure regarding a convention center at this time. Owen’s financial will first need to go before the Planning Commission prior to this going before the City Council and anyone interested in being informed on what’s really happening should go to a Planning Commission meeting which are conducted on the second Thursday of each month at 3:00 p.m. in the City Council Chambers. Their agendas are on the City’s website at http://www.cityofslt.us
I would venture to guess that once a plan is approved the desirability and value of those remaining 8-parcels will go through the roof and those owners will find themselves sitting on a nice little golden egg. Someone will likely end up paying a bundle to have the opportunity to development those remaining properties, and with the improvement of the national economy and easier financing some type of development will likely commence in the next few years.
I dont understand how the parcels didn’t get combined into a single parcel prior to anything going forward. Then the combined parcel should have been dropped into an LLC and ownership in the LLC distributed in exchange for fee title to land. People blame the council for that, and I blame them for a lot, but that wasnt their business. But Owens should have known better. Now they have to go through messy land sales if they want to move anything larger forward where it could have been as easy as purchasing shares in an LLC. It makes no sense…
Long Skiis:
You remarked that: “For 70 million we can get South Shore lookin’ real good…..Let’s put money into fixing up South Shore…..Hire more Police, Firemen and city workers. Refurbish the recreation center, build at LEAST one more public park and fix the city boat ramp. Recreation is where it’s at and if this community is going to survive then thats what we need to persue.”
Unfortunately the $70 million to which you refer won’t be placed in the City’s bank account to use as they wish. When the Feds and State provide project funding it is earmarked only for that specific project and can’t be switched to something else. If it’s not used for that project the money won’t come and it will go to some other jurisdiction for their Federal or State approved project.
Yes, OLS, we really are getting sidewalks this summer. It’s a CalTrans project, so probably will use mostly their people, but we will get improvements and maybe they will spend a few dollars while they are here.
scadmin, not sure, will check on that.