Opinion: Tahoe can’t afford fireworks lawsuit
By Nancy Kerry
As we all know, the economy and our environment are fundamentally intertwined. If we ever doubted the connection, those doubts should have been erased through the impacts of the great recession on our local economy. We need revenue from tourism to sustain our economy, which in turn helps to fund environmental projects that protect the natural beauty, which draws millions of visitors every year. We cannot have a thriving economy without protecting the environment and we cannot have a beautiful natural environment without money to protect and properly sustain it.
Mr. and Mrs. [Joe and Joan] Truxler recently sued the Lake Tahoe Visitors Authority for “failing to obtain a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit” for the fireworks shows that occur each July and Labor Day. An NPDES permit, if required, would be issued by Lahontan Regional Water Quality Control Board on the California side or the Nevada Department of Environmental Protection if the show were on the Nevada side of the lake.
Nancy Kerry
Ten years ago, Lahontan determined an NPDES permit was not required after monitoring fireworks shows because any impacts dissipated within 24 hours and posed no environmental threat to the clarity of our beautiful Lake Tahoe. The Nevada Department of Environmental Protection issued a letter to LTVA in December 2013 indicating neither an NPDES permit nor oversight of the fireworks show was necessary. Therefore, both agencies in California and Nevada with a duty to oversee environmental protections in Lake Tahoe have determined an NPDES permit is not required or necessary.
Lake clarity has not been negatively impacted by fireworks debris. The evidence of that statement is lake clarity has improved during the 35 years the fireworks shows have been produced. The issue of debris can be resolved through better clean up, community involvement and enforcement against illegal fireworks, but not through a protracted lawsuit. The fireworks show already has both surface and subsurface clean-up procedures in place with a great track record, with the exception of last year. If the show is cancelled, illegal firework use will likely increase, a scary scenario on the heels of the driest winter of record.
We can’t control when Mother Nature doesn’t cooperate, but a manmade impact of this magnitude is simply inconsiderate of the consequences. If the fireworks show were canceled because of this lawsuit, the economic impact to our community would be staggering. Hardest hit would be the underemployed who rely on tips and service jobs to survive. Our city’s General Fund relies primarily on bed tax to fund police, fire and other essential services, and cancellation of the largest summer event will adversely impact the city’s budget.
The city of South Lake Tahoe, while not a party to the lawsuit, has been actively working to facilitate both short- and long-term solutions to this issue. I have spoken to the Truxlers and believe they are seeking reasonable solutions to the issue of debris. However, I have also spoken to their lawyer and believe his efforts to extract excessive fees are unreasonable and could preclude a resolution to the case. At the LTVA’s emergency meeting Thursday, there was unwavering and unanimous support calling on the Truxlers to work with the community and not against it by agreeing to solutions for the debris and withdrawing the lawsuit so the show can go on. We need to immediately commence another spectacular show in time for July 4, 2014.
Nancy Kerry is the city manager of South Lake Tahoe.
Awesome letter. Right on. I am not sure we know all of the factors affecting lake clarity, but the impact of this lawsuit on this community is enormous. I hope the Truxlers will impose on their lawyer to drop the suit.
The Truxlers will be the bain of Tahoe if they don’t get off their self-absorbed issue to screw up the economy of the South Shore of Lake Tahoe. Every agency has been trying to work with them — why are they being such power-mongers? There is nothing to gain by holding our community hostage with this lawsuit. Great letter Nancy — hope this couple gets a surge of intelligence, and drops the economic-sucker lawsuit.
Nancy Kerry, Excellent letter! You hit on alot of the right points. It’s good to hear you’ve been in touch with the people and organizations involved.
Now if the Truxlers can give their lawyer the go ahead to drop the suit it wil be a great relief for the whole community. Old Long Skiis
Nice piece of propaganda here Nancy. No chance of winning in a real court of law so let’s do this through the media. With enough public pressure I’m sure we can get the Truxlers to drop this. Ignoring them didn’t work. Now we need to tell the already economically down folks (who are struggling to make a living in a town that has done NOTHING to help them)that they will suffer more hardship if these people and their Snidley Whiplash lawyer pursue this LEGAL situation.
Ten years ago it was deemed that no permit was required. Has anything changed in that ten years? Any difference in the science of pyrotechnics? Any difference in how pollutants are measured? Any difference in the amounts or types of fireworks used?
For someone who spends our tax dollars on study after expensive study, you sure are in a hurry to sweep this under the rug.
Don’t be fooled by or scared by some well crafted verbiage folks. It’s all about the money.
I agree that we need “another spectacular show” but Nancy, your following statement is false:
“lake clarity has improved during the 35 years the fireworks shows have been produced”
35 years ago the clarity was 87.7 feet, today it is 70.1 feet. This is not an improvement.
http://terc.ucdavis.edu/research/SecchiData.pdf
“We need revenue from tourism to sustain our economy, which in turn helps to fund environmental projects that protect the natural beauty?”
This argument is illogical. It is tourism and year round residents which threaten Tahoe’s natural beauty through road dust, stormwater and noise pollution. To say that we need more tourism to fund projects to protect lake clarity from tourism is crazy.
So the immediate firework “impacts dissipated within 24 hours,” all that means is that pollutants from this nearshore activity are diluting into deeper water, out of sight out of mind, solution to pollution is dillusion?
Well said! You have to wonder why the Truxlers have not dropped the lawsuit since their stated concerns have been met. After attending the March 27 community meeting and hearing about the Truxler’s attorney, I am wondering if he is working on contingency basis. If he is only paid if he “wins” the case then he could be pressuring the Truxlers not to drop the lawsuit. This is all speculation, but someone needs to tell the Truxlers that their lawyer is ethically bound to follow their wishes, NOT his own.
Why wasn’t cleanup done adequately last year?
The compromise to this issue is for the sponsors or fireworks company be required to post a deposit or bond to ensure completely adequate and satisfactory cleanup following the fireworks, monitored by an independent unrelated third party such as Lahontan. If cleanup isn’t satisfactory, the deposit is then used to hire paid professional cleanup crews to do it right.
The fox should not be allowed to guard the henhouse.
The effects of the fireworks can not be “cleaned up” by picking up trash. Here is one study by the EPA demonstrating changes in the concentration of perchlorate in a lake due to fireworks.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/es0700698
This is a 2007 study which was not available to regulators a decade ago. Regardless of their motives, the science is clear that fireworks influence lake water quality.
The Truxler’s are the puppets and their representative “legal counsel”, Attorney Michael R. Lozeau, is the puppeteer pulling the strings, and Lozeau is a very powerful attorney. Lozeau practices environmental law in the San Francisco Bay area, has extensive experience representing public interest clients on matters involving the federal Clean Water Act, has published a number of articles on Clean Water Act enforcement, and in 2003 the San Francisco Chronicle named him one of the Top 25 lawyers in the San Francisco Bay area. This guy is “the man” when it comes to environmental lawsuits and there isn’t anyone that local businesses, the LTVA, or the City can collectively afford to hire of the same caliber to go up against him. It is Lozeau who really wants the fireworks ended and the Truxler’s don’t have control over him because they have become the front-men-shills in this lawsuit. Lozeau wants to add to his list of notable achievements that he ended fireworks displays over all U.S. waterways and his precedent setting case will be the South Shore’s fireworks and Lake Tahoe, the jewel of the Sierra. He’s initiated this against a community that he knows can’t afford to pay the extortion money of $37,500 for each fireworks rocket fired during the past five years and he doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him because he has an over developed sense of self-importance and self-righteousness.
While the Truxler’s may have had some good intentions when they entered into this, they likely signed an agreement with Lozeau that he would be doing this work Pro Bono, but if they dropped the suit they would then need to pay all of his fees to date which of course would be staggering.
That’s my opinion.
“Lake clarity has not been negatively impacted by fireworks debris. The evidence of that statement is lake clarity has improved during the 35 years the fireworks shows have been produced.”
-Nancy Kerry
Two things:
1. Translated, this means, “So long as lake clarity isn’t going down, nothing you put in the lake will harm it.” Thank you, Nancy, for making it so abundantly clear to everyone that you don’t have even the simplest understanding of the science behind lake clarity.
2. Now to the facts… 35 years ago (1979) lake clarity was 87.7 ft. In 2013 it was 70.1 ft. That’s a 20% drop in lake clarity, yet in our City Manager’s mind, this is an IMPROVEMENT. Nancy, we’re not stupid. We know how to check your easily disprovable propaganda. So the question is, are you lying to your constituents, or are you simply unable to read even the most basic charts? I’m not sure which answer I’m hoping for…
Haddi T. Upptahere & Total Recall, As I said, Nancy “hit on alot of the right points”, but certainly, by far, not all.
Do the fireworks pollute the lake? Yes, it can only be fixed to a degree. As for getting the fine particles out of the water would be nigh impossible. Nitrate is not something we want falling into the lake from the sky. We’ve already got too much from people fertilizing their lawns.
Stormwater runoff, road dust,among other materials that flow into the lake has long been a serious problem that is rarely addressed.
In an abstract way, I’m glad The Truxlers filed the suit if for nothing else than to get people talking about these other pollutants flowing into Tahoe and local streams.
I hope the suit goes away, we have the fireworks but we REALLY get to work on saving what’s left of the lakes clarity.
Finally, Haddi, Snidley Whiplash! I haven’t thought about that character in a real long time. I hope he doesn’t tie Nell(Nancy) to the railroad tracks,(their both redheads you know). Finally “the solution to pollution is dillusion”. Very good play on words Total Recall. Thats from and old slogan from the early 60’s “the solution to pollution is dilution”.
Take Care, OLS
I have been a Tahoe local for 27 years now and love the fireworks. I am also a land use attorney, licensed in California and Nevada, very familiar with the laws at issue. Finally, I have been a Mediator for both the California and Nevada Courts for almost two decades. So my two cents on the issue is based on resolving serious disputes for years. Apparently, from the news stories, mediation broke down, because the fireworks provider refused to get government permits which would provide oversight of clean-up, which is the litigants concerns. The fireworks provider was upset about the costs involved, apparently. A simple solution that would resolve the issue now, and save the fireworks shows, would be for the LTVA to work out a deal with the City and Douglas County to fund the fireworks permit expenses for the provider and the fireworks provider to confess to judgment stipulating to a permit, with government oversight of clean-up. That would end the lawsuit right now and save the fireworks shows. Blaming the litigants and their attorney for a lawsuit that seeks to enforce the law does not seem to be productive.
You ignore the basics of ‘natural law’ – people pollute – the more people the more pollution – PERIOD. There is nothing wrong with the economy here, but there are too many entrepreneurs trying to suck a little more blood out of the pristine environment that we used to enjoy in ‘the old days’.
Its true that I was here first and I want to close the door – and there is nothing wrong with that position. Think for a moment what Yosemite would be like today if the government had not stepped in and said “no more” development. That is what I want here before we totally wreck the place.
When trying to solicit a following, please use true facts Nancy. Your letter had purpose until you began to spew untruths.
Nancy, this is starting to sound like the Hole without a bond. What I mean is no “foresight” by anyone that firework debris might be a problem. Apparently, the LTVA got a notice of intent to sue last fall and did what? Waited to have an “emergency” meeting.
So, the yelling and finger pointing is aimed at the Truxler’s. The hope is that with enough yelling and finger pointing they will back down. Umm. What is plan B if they don’t?
Deb, we get you to mitigate this instead of Lew Feldman? Wasn’t it Lew that represented the TaHole and that issue?
thank you Deborah palmer for setting it straight. it’s simple, follow the law and clean up your mess. it seems to me ltva and the fireworks company are bringing up every excuse in the book for not obtaining pertinent permits. gotta wonder why?
also, i understand that ltva gave out the truxler’s personal phone number to every one that attended their emergency meeting. wow! is that adult bullying or what! that in itself makes me sick!
Deborah A. Palmer, Thank you for for telling it like it is. Max Dog hit it on the head as well. OLS
Lew Feldman is not the “mediator” in this case, he is the attorney representing LTVA. Lew represents all of the corporate developers in the Tahoe Basin and was a big player in the Hole in the Ground. He is also the longtime romantic partner of Carol Chaplin, head of LTVA.
Deb Palmer hit the nail on the head. All of the public agencies were contacted last summer about this problem, but they all decided as a legal and public relations strategy to wait until the last minute and whip the town into a frenzy with the threat of pulling the fireworks. They are playing us all for fools. And, sadly, it’s working.
Guess what people, if they have to get a permit directly for the EPA then it could take as much as two years, is a annual permit and could be as much as 100k a year. There is no money from the LTVA for this annual fee. So unless the locals(who have not paid for the fireworks since the LTVA took it over) want to pay this expense then there will be no fireworks. I think that the 5 or 6 people who have stated on this forum who are against them, should also look at themselves, do you drive a car? do you fertilize your lawns, do you go boating on the lake, do you swim in the lake with suntan lotion? These 22 minute fireworks really dont contribute that much difference to the lake clarity compared to the affore mention items.
The TRPA is responsible for the clarity of the lake. What is their stance on this issue? I would hate to see the fireworks canceled, but the Truxler’s have a valid concern.
Where is TRPA in this? One could easily argue that this type of activity with a Lake-wide impact is EXACTLY the type of project for which TRPA was created. The simple truth is that there isn’t much legal precedent here because Lake Tahoe is a ONE-OF-A-KIND place, where we are always trying to balance the incredible and unique natural resources with an established population of locals and a large tourism industry. That’s why California, Nevada, and Congress established the TRPA decades ago, to manage this distinct and idiosyncratic balance. EPA doesn’t usually issue these types of permits because Lake Tahoe isn’t like other lakes, and that’s why we all LOVE IT SO MUCH. Unlike EPA, TRPA is on-the-ground in the Basin, has local public hearings, has significantly lower permitting costs (could even be waived), and drastically lower penalties for violations ($5k vs. $37.5k).
Yes, stepping into this mess will expose TRPA to legal risks, and that’s not an insignificant factor. But if we have learned anything about the past few weeks, it’s that the fireworks are VERY important to A LOT of people in our community. The show CAN and SHOULD go on if TRPA is willing to step up and be the environmental leader it regularly claims to be on this website.
OH, this can of worms…
And where is the league on this issue, Tahoe’s self appointed watchdog. In the basin it is impossible to avoid controversy if you intend to address meaningful issues. Fireworks has to be forefront in their dialogue but it isn’t
The League is certainly not Tahoe’s self-appointed watchdog, unless you mean that the League appointed itself as watchdog. The members do not live in the basin and outsiders are not permitted to attend League meetings.
‘Now to the facts… 35 years ago (1979) lake clarity was 87.7 ft. In 2013 it was 70.1 ft. That’s a 20% drop in lake clarity, yet in our City Manager’s mind, this is an IMPROVEMENT. Nancy, we’re not stupid. We know how to check your easily disprovable propaganda. So the question is, are you lying to your constituents, or ***are you simply unable to read even the most basic charts?***’
Bob… you over simplified things. Look at the polynomial trendline. Take its first derivative.
Cosa. Read the last paragraph. Nancy, like everyone else is hoping to pressure the Truxler’s into backing down. Game of chicken with lawyers anyone?
This is the most intelligent series of postings we have had on this topic and I’m glad to see readers getting down to dealing with the issues without blaming the United Nations, liberals or Democrats or anyone else. This problem is one of our own making and we must deal with it.
Thoughts:
Its too bad the Truxlers original phone calls to various entities were apparently ignored. A better response would have been for us (the community and civil servants) to jump into this feet first and start working to resolve the problem. Have the Truxlers substantiated whom they called and documented a non response? I too have had the experience of calling public entities and been ignored.
The idea of the fireworks providers posting a performance bond seems like a good one. Is this feasible/possible?
What if the Truxlers agreed to put the lawsuit on hold for one year to give the community a chance to improve clean up?
Have we heard from other residents along the shoreline to learn what their experience of fireworks trash has been? What about divers and even the submarines that explore the deeper waters. What have they seen?
The chemical pollutants cast over the lake can only be fixed it seems by manufacturers working on the composition of the explosives. Until then we have to decide if we can live with it. What about the laser idea?
This seems like a situation the TRPA and their scientists should go to work on. They may not collect permitting fees for this work but it is a responsibility they should take on. The jet ski lawsuit was taken on on the basis of water, air and noise pollution and this doesn’t seem greatly different.
Tahoe will not be fixed in any way by attracting more tourists. Like it or not, the basin has a carrying capacity. Jim Hildinger had the courage to state some obvious facts and risk putting himself in the line of fire.
As suggested by Deborah Palmer, could we attempt mediation?
Hiker. Apparently, the LTVA decided at its emergency meeting to release personal information about the Truxler’s. If this is indeed the case, I am not sure of your points will be heeded. Is the LTVA betting on an angry mob to force the Truxler’s relent? And, I am guessing there is no plan B, if the mob fails.
I was at the meeting and the LTVA did not give out the phone number. Others who are not apart of the LTVA did. The number was circulated a day before on Facebook. The Truxlers lawyer has no intention of settling, It is manys belief that he wants to use case to shut down firework shows nationwide. If that is the case i can see congress making fireworks an exemption from the clean water act.
I believe the Truxlers are in charge of whether or not their attorney proceeds. I think they have the best interest of the lake in mind and would probably forgive the unpleasantness that has come to pass and dig in and work with us to find resolve. I’m sure they understand (though were offended by) how people went ballistic when they thought a treasured tradition might be lost. I believe we can all rise above this as evidenced by the reasonable tone of the current dialog. Mediation anyone?
Relo. Ok. So, people that were at the LTVA meeting gave out the Truxler’s personal information. Glad for that clarification. Congress can’t pass urine or gas, so don’t hold you breath on that one.
Hikerchick, I like your “thoughts:”. comments.Very well said and to the point.
We are running out of time to come to a resolution, which in my mind is pretty easy to achieve. Clean up the mess you made and then we’ll look at the harder stuff. Big job to be sure but if we want to keep this beautiful place looking good we need to do some serious work that may make some unhappy due to cost and more regulations.
It seems to me very few want to spend money or their personal time to keep the lake and surrounding areas clean. It’s more about finger pointing and passing the buck. If LTVA and the pyro technics co. are the major cause of the mess then they should clean up the lions share of the mess. We’ll get the rest with volunteers and paid workers.
I hope there’s a growing feeling in the area that we ALL need to help save this beautiful place we call home…been my home town since 1962 and I don’t want to see it degraded any further.
Talk about degration and polluting the lake, you should have seen the devastation to the Truckee Marsh when it was tore up to build Tahoe Keys! I’ll save that horrid story for another time. Thanks, OLS
Let me get this straight: couple tries to protect the lake; authorities and LVTA ignore couple; then couple gets run out of town for trying to protect the lake. Nice job Tahoe.
Is it possible that Clean Tahoe could be given extra money to hire people to clean up after big beach events and holidays? They do a wonderful job and they’re set up for the work.
Perhaps representatives from the entities that ignored the Truxler’s calls and/or a public figure representing all could call and write to the Truxlers (after all, we have their phone number) and apologize for personal attacks that were made in the heat of the moment. Its not much fun to apologize in a situation like this one but it does make you feel like a grown up.
Common. That’s the summary. Reminds me of Jaws when the Mayor tells Brody “those beaches will remain open this weekend.” At least we know where our local “leaders” really stand on the question of keeping Tahoe Blue; or rather Green.
Have been led to believe by a couple of the prominent people at that LTVA Meeting, that we will still see a July 4 Show! Maybe it’s thru the solution Ms. Palmer has put forth?
Yes, it would be a terrible if the Firework Show didn’t happen! But while the Truxlers have been demonized in this, it’s not inconceivable that contrary to the LTVA claims, there concerns were originally ignored, or ‘blown off’?
Harbinger, you are mistaken when you spew that noone that supports the league to save lake tahoe lives here. WRONG!
you might not know anyone in your special circle of friends but I live here and I know dozens of members, from all walks of life and from all economic and income levels. Maybe you need to widen your circle…
Good to see recognition that we need to keep the Lake clean and that the LTVA and other powers that be waited and relied on media and bullying to try their case in a public forum. Seems like a simple case of money – the current company doesn’t want to pay for a proper permit. Well, let’s find another one who will. Has the LTVA looked at other providers? How about the big corporations putting up some extra funds (Edgewood? Vail?).
But, also keep in mind – Lahontan is not an objective 3rd party, TRPA is not protecting Lake Tahoe anymore (they are all about big resorts), and the League to Save LT is about being friends with TRPA, Lahontan, and anyone else on the same bandwagon. Kudos to the Truxlers for putting themselves out there to stand up for the Lake. The response of the LTVA and associates was easily predictable, and they still put themselves out there knowing they would probably become media targets. We need more of that before we lose Tahoe for good.
The Truxlers have been painted as the evil ones in this classic media propganda blitz by the powers that want to protect their financial interests in the fireworks show, while pretending to “love and protect” the lake. In the end, the protection of the lake has to be the priority not how much money some company can make by cutting corners on regulations.
Why did it take private citizens to bring this dirty little secret to the public’s attention. We have layers of government agencies that are being paid big bucks to protect the lake. Where are they???
The city manager believes that the lake’s clarity has improved over the last 35 years proving that the fireworks don’t harm the lake. That is just NOT accurate and she should refrain from such misrepresentations if she expects to be taken seriously.
Hail to the Truxlers for having the tenacity to continue to ask the questions that nobody wants to answer. It shouldn’t take a lawsuit to get the attention of the agencies that should have been doing a better job of monitoring this situation on their own. Don’t surender until a real solution is agreed to and inforceable.
It’s not easy being the target of an orchestrated hate campaign put together by the LTVA, Nevada Chamber and the City of SLT.
Why haven’t we heard more about the possibility of replacing old technology ( Fireworks) with new technology (Laser Light Show)? Wouldn’t that still bring the tourist dollars everyone craves and have ZERO effect on the Lake?
They don’t push bonfires off the cliff in Yosemite anymore. Just because something is a tradition does not mean it can’t be replaced. Has anyone checked on the cost? Something new is why we have the Tahoe South logo now. Why not go all out and INCREASE the amount of tourists by offering something new instead of the same old same old?
EXCELLENT idea, Haddi!! If we can include sound effects somehow, that would probably fit the bill perfectly!
Haddi the reason why is because there is no reason to move away from fireworks. There is almost no pollution from fireworks period, and the volumes are so small nobody cares.
But you would want to shut down the lasers because of global warming anyway.
Now go ahead, repeat the lie: Truxlers found so much garbage:
Yeah, but almost none of it was from the fireworks.
Don’t be afraid to look for the truth even if it doesn’t confirm what you already think.
Moral, there is pollution from fireworks. The pollution is known to negatively influence lake water quality.
Here is a link to a study by the EPA
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/es0700698
That point is not in dispute. The only question is whether our community is willing to accept the science and adjust our activities or not. If its anything like how we addressed roads and marinas, we will continue the impact, and plaster our cars with keep tahoe blue stickers which shows how much we care?
lakeadvocate is right on the money…ltva has a huge financial interest in this. ltva is playing dirty, telling the locals of this town the gloom and doom of what will happen if the show does not go on….the poor little guys will be on the street without a job or a home, people will starve…..mass chaos. get real! good job ltva for inciting violence against the truxlers!! by the way, I heard that officials finally met with the truxler’s (8 months later) to see the debris first hand and for the first time. they agreed it is commercial grade firework debris. I wonder if ltva showed up for that meeting? doubt it…they are too busy causing a media armageddon!
Total, you are right, its not in dispute: English comprehension is a good thing:
Microcosms showed comparatively rapid intrinsic perchlorate
degradation in the absence of nitrate consistent with the
observed disappearance of perchlorate from the study site.
This suggests that at sites with appropriate biogeochemical
conditions, natural attenuation may be an important
factor affecting the fate of perchlorate following fireworks
displays.
Total. That is a good link for information on pyrotechnic mixtures in the environment. Unfortunately, a lot of posters on this blog do not believe in Science, Physics, Climatology, Cosmology or Mathematics. Hence, you get a response like Moral above.
It’s not that they don’t believe in science, but rather, they prefer to stick to what they know…how to whine and cry. You know, in classic Tahoe style. Tahoans don’t want facts, they resist facts and change. Sorry, but locals are very selective about what they care about and how they care about it and it’s usually based on nothing more than ignorance.
Locals don’t get to choose when to have high environmental standards and when to completely ignore them. It’s not your decision when to ignore things just to make more money and this one sided, non factual opinion (now on the public record) show exactly why locals should not be in control of this issue. It’s a very clear and classic conflict of interest.
If you shoot things up over the lake, they will then land in the lake, pretty simple.
“Pyrotechnics do not pollute!” Who do you think you’re kidding with statements like that?
A bunch of Ta Hole hypocrites!
And don’t worry about the local economy and any effects on the unemployed, no one in this town pays a real living wage anyway, and the only people that get full hours are the salaried worker that are expected to work 55 hours a week during the holidays.
The trickle down theory has been proven to work for the American economy as a whole, and even less so in South Lake Tahoe.
To hell with the fireworks on the south shore – I am going to Truckee this year. Their fireworks show is just as good, and the party is even better.
Correction:
The trickle down theory has NOT proven to work for the American economy…
A neighbor of the Truxlers told me that city officials, including Kerry, met with the Truxlers on Saturday morning to view the firework debris. She said that they were shocked at the large amount of fuses and pieces of plastic. I heard that there were 1,000s of pieces of debris. Some of the debris had been ingested by animals. The officials, including Kerry, apparently admitted that we have a serious pollution problem with the Fireworks.
So, the question now is: are these officials going to come forward to the rest of us with the truth of what they saw or are they going to continue spinning their web of lies? We already know that the Truxler’s emails and phone calls went unanswered for months. Whats next? It would certainly behoove all of them to learn to read basic scientific reports on the lake water quality . .
I agree that we have an opportunity to take the lead here and make some important and perhaps historical changes to protect the lake. We all know that we need the tourist revenue and most of us know that our tourists are drawn to Tahoe because of its beauty and we must protect our environment. We also know that most of our tourist money comes from the Bay Area, those folks will be the first to support an environmentally sustainable 4th of July celebration.
The Bay is now home to the most innovative tech advances (not to mention a bunch of young and wealthy techies). Lets do something equally innovative and become the leader in a new 4th of July tradition that is sustainable . . . Laser light shows, green fire works! Come on- we can make the 4th even bigger and better than it has ever been. Change might be scary but it can also benefit us- financially and otherwise.
Also, I found this earlier today: Pyros Spectacular is also responsible for a superfund site in SoCal. This means that the manufacturing of the fireworks that are shot off above our precious lake have completely destroyed the land and drinking water in parts of SoCal. In Rialto and Colton, the area’s groundwater is contaminated with trichloroethylene, TCE, and perchlorate, which has forced the closure of public drinking water supply wells in those cities.
We cannot continue to celebrate our independence by polluting the lake and making sure that our neighbors down south don’t have clean water.
Lets come together as a community. Lets support the good work that Truxlers have done. Lets stop pointing the finger of blame at them and instead thank them for this opportunity to be in conversation with one another.
Can you even imagine the media attention that the lake would get if we had some kind of sustainable 4th of July Celebration? Does anyone do that? I don’t think so. Lets be the first. Lets get back on the map as real resort destination that cares for the land and its people. All of us know how important that is and how much potential money is to be made by doing so.
A neighbor of the Truxlers told me that city officials, including Kerry, met with the Truxlers on Saturday morning to view the firework debris. She said that they were shocked at the large amount of fuses and pieces of plastic. I heard that there were 1,000s of pieces of debris. Some of the debris had been ingested by animals. The officials, including Kerry, apparently admitted that we have a serious pollution problem with the Fireworks.
So, the question now is: are these officials going to come forward to the rest of us with the truth of what they saw or are they going to continue spinning their web of lies? We already know that the Truxler’s emails and phone calls went unanswered for months. Whats next? It would certainly behoove all of them to learn to read basic scientific reports on the lake water quality . .
I agree that we have an opportunity to take the lead here and make some important and perhaps historical changes to protect the lake. We all know that we need the tourist revenue and most of us know that our tourists are drawn to Tahoe because of its beauty and we must protect our environment. We also know that most of our tourist money comes from the Bay Area, those folks will be the first to support an environmentally sustainable 4th of July celebration.
The Bay is now home to the most innovative tech advances (not to mention a bunch of young and wealthy techies). Lets do something equally innovative and become the leader in a new 4th of July tradition that is sustainable . . . Laser light shows, green fire works! Come on- we can make the 4th even bigger and better than it has ever been. Change might be scary but it can also benefit us- financially and otherwise.
Lets come together as a community. Lets support the good work that Truxlers have done. Lets stop pointing the finger of blame at them and instead thank them for this opportunity to be in conversation with one another.
Can you even imagine the media attention that the lake would get if we had some kind of sustainable 4th of July Celebration? Does anyone do that? I don’t think so. Lets be the first. Lets get back on the map as real resort destination that cares for the land and its people. All of us know how important that is and how much potential money is to be made by doing so.
Marla, heck of a story there. Only one problem. There is no plastic anywhere in a commercial firework. They are cardboard.
Lasers are invisible in clear air.
The only time you can see a laser is if it shines directly in your eye – or, more likely, if it bounces off particles suspended in the air.
As there is no fog machine large enough to fog up the entire South Shore, the only way to see a laser show would be to generate a phenomenal quantity of smoke.
I hope those advocating laser shows as an “environmentally sound” alternative can see the problem here.
Next, a disclaimer, since these are lawyers who could probably buy and sell me several times just by hocking their wife’s wedding ring: the following is my opinion.
As for what’s really happening, look above at 4-mer-usmc’s comment about Michael Lozeau. He is a Bay Area environmental lawyer and, if this effort succeeds, expect him to enrich himself and his firm by using it as a precedent to ban fireworks displays nationwide.
(Well, it won’t legally be a ban, as Lozeau will repeatedly point out. He’ll just make it so that multiple environmental reviews, incredible amounts of paperwork, guarantees, and surety bonds are necessary to put on a fireworks show anywhere in the USA…which no community can afford, so fireworks will effectively be banned.)
Remember how Scott Johnson enriched himself by suing dozens of Tahoe businesses out of existence for trivial ADA violations? This is the same thing, done nationwide with much higher stakes.
Where are the other cities around the lake? This will end it for everyone. Let’s shut down S.F.s fireworks. That impact would be huge.
Moral,
I wish that there wasn’t any plastic in the fireworks debris. It just doesn’t appear to be so. The fuses have plastic wrapped around them and it seems that there were tons of plastic caps or something.
In the meantime, we can check out this link related to Environmentally Sustainable Fireworks:
http://inhabitat.com/green-fireworks-for-an-eco-friendly-independence-day/
Marla Zephyr & Ryan Paine, Marla, I liked your letter and I agree, we could do better and stand as an example for the nation as to fireworks displays with new technology and possibly “greener” fireworks.
I think a laser light show with music would be excellent! Ever been to a Pink Floyd concert? INCREDIBLE!!!
Because of the Truxlers maybe something good will come out of all of this. I hate to see them vilified for pointing out something that was ignored for 35 years. Lets correct the problem and move on to other issues regarding lake clarity.
Ryan , I’m with you about a REAL outdoor events center, and no, not a crummy parking lot behind a casino. It is not an arena, amphitheater or whatever else the marketing people say. It’s a frickin’ parking lot with uncomfortable plastic chairs and not the best accoustics. Hopefully one day So. Shore will have a real outdoor venue that is attractive, great sound system, good lighting and comfortable seating.
Ryan you also mentioned people going by fake names here at LTN. I did so out of neccesity. Using my real name, and stupid me, even included my home phone number. I got some real strange calls , some border line threatening so I started using my “campfire name”. The weird thing is I write mostly harmless stuff but I guess some folks thought otherwise. So my advice would be to not use your real name if you write anything even marginally controversial.
Thanks to all that comment here, we may not all agree but it’s always interesting. OLS
“There is no plastic anywhere in a commercial firework. ”
Source? What I just read mentioned that the use of plastic is decreasing. The vast majority of all fireworks are made in China.
Let’s talk about that SCARY PERCHLORATE STUDY.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es0700698
The “lake” they tested (Wintersmith Lake, in Oklahoma) is a tiny puddle compared to Lake Tahoe. It was constructed by the WPA during the Depression, most of it is less than 300 feet wide, and it’s only a few feet deep. Some pictures:
http://www.brainwavz.org/Guardian_Angel_on_Duty.htm
You could fit hundreds of thousands of Wintersmith “Lakes” into Lake Tahoe. A 1000-fold increase in perchlorate in Wintersmith wouldn’t even be detectable in Lake Tahoe.
Fireworks doesn’t even register as rounding error compared to the issues resulting from inappropriate storm drains (see: Tahoe Pipe Club), vehicular traffic around the lake, and destruction of wetlands by developers. And how about the Lakeside Inn’s plan to turn Rabe Meadow into a cattle ranch? Straight into the lake…
Again, my opinion follows:
This is a smokescreen. Lozeau will try to keep us little people thinking we’re doing something to preserve lake clarity (by forgoing fireworks) while avoiding the real issues, which would require Big Money to make slightly less money.
Don’t fall for the “environmental” angle…it’s a money play by a big-city lawyer, just like Scott Johnson blackmailing local businesses while pretending he’s crusading for the rights of disabled.
Cosa, it was all inspected. There is no mystery here except why the Truxlers will not admit that the vast majority of what they collected was illegal private fire works.
Steven P.:
I agree with your comments. It is an unfortunate truth that altruism is in very short supply when it comes to those with wealth and power. I think your comparison of Lozeau to Johnson is accurate.
Moral, Do you have a source that shows there is no plastic in fireworks? I think that we would like to see that. Again, a source would be helpful.
All the evidence that most of us have seen shows that there is in fact plastic in fireworks and firework debris. As we have learned, these fireworks do not disintegrate in the air. They land in the water . . . along with the plastic.
Old Long Skiis and Ryan, a real outdoor event venue in South Shore sounds amazing!
Ryan and Dan, I appreciate and respect your wisdom and leadership to use your real names. I wish that I was that brave. I can’t even image what the Truxlers might be going through right now after the smear campaign orchestrated by LTVA that strangely corresponded with the release of their personal information. If Old Long Skiis received “border line threatening phone calls” from sharing his thoughts on this forum . . . I just can’t imagine.
So I just read that the Park Co. is renovating the Horizon for around 40 million. Clearly there is money in So Tahoe. The cost of a fireworks show is pennies compared to that price tag. Ta Hole is being filled in and businesses are moving in. This is some serious change. Lets move forward.
Uh oh, we have a Pipe Club moron in our midst.
Steve P, you fail to consider the long term accumulation of these pollutants in Lake Tahoe. Immediate effects from fireworks may dissipate, diffuse and become diluted into deep waters. But the retention time of water and pollutants in lake tahoe is on the order of 650 years, and it is the long term accumulation of anthropogenic pollutants which is the cause of clarity loss. Storm water, road dust, loss of wetland function are all regulated by lahontan and/or ndep, why not fireworks?
Perchlorate (the largest chemical side effect of fireworks) bioremediation/degradation rates are not on the order of years, but weeks.
Based on the chemistry, there is no reason to be concerned with chemical contamination in the lake from fireworks.
The CWA part of the suit addressed the surface contamination, shells, refuse, etc. And that is a legitimate concern that luckily we can easily take care of and should have to avoid this fiasco.
Beware of rumors, hysteria, and public spectacle, which has muddled this issue.
That is all.
Again, this is my opinion. (As is everyone’s here.)
@Buck, “Let’s shut down S.F.s fireworks. That impact would be huge.”
Lozeau won’t foul his own nest by going after SF or other big Bay Area cities and risking bad publicity near his home. Besides, they’ve got money to fight it. He’ll go after all the small towns in what he probably calls “flyover country” when he thinks we’re not listening…because he’ll be able to extort money out of us and claim he’s “protecting pristine alpine watersheds” instead of running an extortion racket.
@Marla, I would strongly support a movement to use fewer offensive chemicals in our fireworks! But that’s not what the lawsuit is pushing for. And that’s not Lozeau’s aim, either: again, this is an extortion racket disguised as environmentalism in order to fool the little people (us) into supporting it.
Besides, the environmental impact of tens of thousands of people driving up here to see ANY July 4th celebration so far outweighs the impact of any fireworks that any attempt to make it “sustainable” is a bad joke. The Tahoe economy is based on tourism, which is based on the totally unsustainable model of tens of millions of vehicle miles each year. If we want to address that, let’s start running buses from Sacramento and having a functional transit system with more than two bike spots per bus. (And we can veto that crazy plan to turn Rabe Meadow, public land which drains directly into the lake via a public beach, into a cattle ranch.)
Heck, we could even think about fixing the giant holes in our bike paths, which are unrideable on road bikes due to pavement damage left unrepaired since the Reagan adminstration. Oh, wait, we stole that money to build an Astroturf field for ravers to barf on over New Years.
Also, one of the articles you linked notes that there are 10x more fireworks produced for personal use than for professional use…as Moral Hazard noted, those are the ones generating the bulk of the plastic trash, not the mortar shells used in the official display. Do you see how many people are lighting their own fireworks over the lake each year? What do you think people will do if there is no official display?
@OLS, see my above point about laser shows. You can’t fog-machine the entire South Shore: you need smoke. Lots of smoke. Lots of non-environmentally-friendly smoke. There aren’t enough stoners in the entire Bay Area to puff that many doobies.
@Moral Hazard, “There is no mystery here except why the Truxlers will not admit that the vast majority of what they collected was illegal private fire works.” Seems likely.
@4-mer-usmc, thank you.
@Total recall, “Steve P, you fail to consider the long term accumulation of these pollutants in Lake Tahoe.”
l. A fart in a hurricane is still a fart in a hurricane.
2. As the paper clearly notes, perchlorate is broken down by bacteria over time. That’s why it disappears between 8 and 60 days in a pond about 1 millionth the volume of Lake Tahoe.
Again, I would strongly support the use of fewer offensive chemicals in fireworks! I live here and I love the beach and the lake. But that’s not what Lozeau is pushing for.
@cosa pescado: I apologize for linking the actual perchlorate paper and thereby bringing facts into this discussion.
Once again: this isn’t about saving the environment. This is about enriching a Bay Area lawyer at the expense of small towns everywhere.
Steve P., I salute you.
Steve, Perchlorate “breaking down” in a lake is analogous to nitrogen and phosphorous “breaking down.” It’s called eutrophication where algae and cyanobacteria break down these substances. Tahoe is efficient in recycling these nutrients where fireworks pollution goes beyond perchlorate, there is potassium nitrate, potassium perchlorate, and ammonium perchlorate, and the increase in productivity is causing Tahoe’s clarity loss. Fireworks are not a fart in a hurricane, but a fart in an elevator
Total, why what a fanciful tale. And you have volumes from….?
Oh, you made it up. But that’s good enough for you right, no need for actual science or anything.
“Beware of rumors, hysteria, and public spectacle, which has muddled this issue.
That is all.”
Nope, that is not all… And yes, we are are aware of rumors hysteria… and lack of good information in forums disguised as facts.
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/1e5ab1124055f3b28525781f0042ed40/6348845793f4cc5d8525782b004d81ae!OpenDocument
EPA To Develop Regulation for Perchlorate and Toxic Chemicals in Drinking Water
Release Date: 02/02/2011
Contact Information: Jalil Isa (News Media Only) (Prensa solamente), isa.jalil@epa.gov, 202-564-3226, 202-564-4355
WASHINGTON – U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa P. Jackson today announced the agency’s decision to move forward with the development of a regulation for perchlorate to protect Americans from any potential health impacts, while also continuing to take steps to ensure the quality of the water they drink. The decision to undertake a first-ever national standard for perchlorate reverses a decision made by the previous administration and comes after Administrator Jackson ordered EPA scientists to undertake a thorough review of the emerging science of perchlorate.
http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/unregulated/upload/FactSheet_PerchlorateDetermination.pdf
Why did EPA decide to regulate perchlorate?
EPA has determined that perchlorate meets SDWA’s thee criteria for regulating a contaminant. 1) Perchlorate may have adverse health effects because scientific research indicates that perchlorate can disrupt the thyroid’s ability to produce hormones needed for normal growth and development. 2)There is a substantial likelihood that perchlorate occurs with frequency at levels of health concern in public water systems because monitoring data show over four percent of public water systems have detected perchlorate, and 3.) There is a meaningful opportunity for health risk reduction for the between 5.2 and 16.6 million people who may be served drinking water containing perchlorate.
OK, now lets point fingers at the succesful lawyer. Since he has helped with other environmental lawsuits and won he is evil. Well too bad for the all knowing nay sayers and finger pointers who obviously are trying to find the next thing to whine about. Pat yourselves on the back! You dont get to be the great one to provide his phone number so those whiners can call and harass him. Its already out there.
Steve P. Duly noted, attack the Truxlers and their Lawyer too and hope they drop the lawsuit. Umm.. what is your Plan B if they don’t?
With a $170k a year salary, you would think she could keep the facts straight about lake clarity.
http://slt.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=4&clip_id=544&meta_id=52329
Yes ZZ: 2)There is a substantial likelihood that perchlorate occurs with frequency at levels of health concern in public water systems because monitoring data show over four percent of public water systems have detected perchlorate, and 3.) There is a meaningful opportunity for health risk reduction for the between 5.2 and 16.6 million people who may be served drinking water containing perchlorate.And also breathing it.