Opinion: Unthankful for many LTN commenters
By Kathryn Reed
At tables throughout the Unites States today people will be giving thanks.
But what about the other days? Do we just take things for granted the other 364 days of the year? Do we forget to slow down and pause to appreciate what we have?
Yes, many in the Lake Tahoe Basin and elsewhere are still struggling economically. Yes, the divide between haves and have nots is growing. Yes, there is plenty to wallow in.
We all have something we are dealing with that others may not be aware of – it may be an illness, relationship issues, work or the lack thereof, money woes, or any number of problems.
But it’s how we deal with our problems that define who we are. It’s how we interact with others – especially those who are different than us that define our character.
Sometimes it seems like our society has been devolving instead of evolving. We have forgotten how to have civil discourse. We have forgotten how to disagree with one another without being disagreeable.
It’s at all levels of our society – elected officials, managers, employees. It’s between family members.
We have forgotten how to express our opinions without calling others names. We have forgotten that others have a right to opinions that are different from our own.
Commenters on Lake Tahoe News are some of the worst offenders. Name-calling is rampant. The diatribe is getting old. You may think someone has a stupid idea, but that does not make that person stupid.
Why do so many things have to be conservative or liberal in nature? Why does a line in the sand have to be drawn?
I have liberal and conservative family members and friends. That isn’t what defines them. We can have lively discussions and still part friends or have a glass of wine together. Listening to one another we learn and grow. We don’t call each other names. We stick to the issue – we attack that, not each other.
It’s time for Lake Tahoe News commenters to learn to do the same. The anger and hate are getting old and tiresome.
I would be thankful if the commenters learned to be respectful, stick to the topic of the story and stop attacking others – and instead only attacked ideas and thoughts. And I would be most thankful if the commenters actually added to the discussion, presented ideas, solutions and ideas.
Happy Thanksgiving!
‘You may think someone has a stupid idea, but that does make that person stupid.’
According to philosophers, we operate on three assumptions. The universe exists, I exist, and I can form thoughts that can be used as predictive models that explain things in the universe. Thoughts that lack predictive capabilities, are not useful.
I operate on four assumptions. The universe exists, I exist, I am stupid, and I can do something about my stupid.
We can deal with basic ignorance and more forward. Willful ignorance is an existential threat that is intolerable.
If Kathryn Reed wants to end the personal attacks that occur on LTN, then it is easy enough to fix. All she needs to do is end the phony anonymous names and require that commenters use their real names, just as Facebook does.
Thank you Kae – I agree that name calling has no place in a public forum (or anywhere else, for that matter). If we want our views to be considered with dignity, we must present our ideas constructively and open to question. My mom used to say that we can catch more bees with honey; thus, we in order to influence folks in a positive way – we need act in a dignified way. Like competitive sports, “sportsmanship” is a key element to success.
Thank you for an interesting year of opinions and information. Like Ellen Degeneres says every day: “Be kind to one another”. I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving!
Irish – I agree!
Thanks Kathryn, good words to live by and from personal experiemnce it makes life much easier. Lighten the load!!
Happy Thanksgiving, Kae and Sue.
Grateful for your thoughts on this subject, Kae.
Steve Kubby is right on the money. Remove anonymous comments. Let each person take responsibility for his or her opinion. After all, if they are adding to the discussion , credit should go to them.
Anonymous allows and encourages baseless and unworthy and indeed hurtful comments. There must be a reason why you have allowed it. Perhaps you can elaborate.
Kae has summarized it beautifully — “I would be thankful if the commenters learned to be respectful, stick to the topic of the story and stop attacking others – and instead only attacked ideas and thoughts. And I would be most thankful if the commenters actually added to the discussion, presented ideas, solutions and ideas.”
I appreciate hearing from commenters with a variety of experiences and perspectives different from mine. If we stick to Kae’s recommendations, we can advance the discussion of a topic rather than cut it short.
Well said! The problem with the internet as a whole is being able to cloak ones thoughts in a blanket of anonimaty. It takes out all accountability. Let’s lighten up and focus on the positive. We live in a place that people only dream about living. We are blessed!
Dennis Prager has long taught his students and listeners to be grateful because they are blessed with everything to make life wonderful.
America, Kae, is going to hell and it is because of ideas and some ideas need to be crushed and discarded.
Borders, language, and culture are required for a country to exist and the USA is running out of all three. America is in a spiral of decline and there is no messiah on the horizon to lead us out of the balkanized, sybaritic culture. And top it off with extreme selfishness and self-righteousness and a suffocating government and you have a recipe for disaster for our country. Sorry folks but that is what is happening.
Right on. I’ve been thinking these same exact thoughts for a long while. These days people join a tribe, and all the opinions that are not the same as the tribe are wrong and need to be debunked. And any opinions or facts that show the thoughts of that tribe to be untrue, or disregarded. The problem is that is most cases the way to solve the problem is to take the best ideas from all the tribes and melt them together. One other thing. I think that the fact that you can tell who someone is that is spouting off on Facebook is not any more helpful. It just makes you lose faith in your friends.
Legal beagle..yep. the world is tough, not everybody gets a trophy or job. Mature people should beable to ignore the childish name callers and move on. Hardy up , toughen up, and have a huge plate of grub this thanksgiving cause you never know what the next year will bring. Happy turkey day to all.
Thanks Kae for the “Food for thought”. Many of us are guilty of speaking our opinions a little louder than some, and even spin off other poster’s comments taking a new direction of the original article.
ie. I disagree with Steve Kubby’s idea of posting names with comments. I don’t need to put a face with everyone’s opinions. some posts are better left unknown of where they came from. Leave it to the reader to decipher the comments. I like NOT knowing my fellow posters…When I think of OLS…I think of Snow Shoe Thompson, Dogula…the nice lady at the dog park who loves dogs, casa pescado…the Mexican man selling fish on the beach, legal beagle…a judge, Hmmm…Michael Angelo the thinker, tahoebluewire…blue jay on a wire… Steve Kubby…you ran for city council, right? Also, well, something’s are better left unsaid.
It seems everyone has something to bring to the table. When I bow my head today with my friends and family I will give thanks to all of you fellow poster and LTN for being the best paper in town.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Well said Kae and I couldn’t agree more. I also agree with Steve Kubby’s suggestion to require real names for posts. People might be less prone to engage in name calling if they didn’t have false identities to hide behind.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and Sue.
I certainly agree with Kae and Janice and Steve…although I could think-up some reasons for anonymity.
Kathryn Reed, Your opinion piece was the first thing I read this morning. It was a great way to wake up! I agree %100 with everything you expressed about the commenters here on Lake Tahoe News.
I try to keep my comments just to the topic and not go with the insults to indivuals or resort to name calling. Sure, I pick on some local agencies or businesses or measures I don’t agree with.
It gets tiring seeing the same people being picked on no matter what they say. I’ve been jumped on a few times myself. I usually shrug it off but sometimes I do respond to defend myself but I don’t want to be drawn into the back and forth arguing.
I made up the name Old Long Skiis becaue, as I told you at The Farmers Market, I was getting some creepy phone calls when using my real name, and you suggested I make up a name. Hence, Old Long Skiis , or OLS, was born.
I read LTN several times a day , looking for new articles and the latest comments.Kae, your journalstic skills are top notch, as are Sue’s and of course I’m a big fan of Bill Kingmans “Then and Now”!!!
So have a great Thanksgiving and to those of you who made it this far into a long diatribe , become a paid subscriber to Lake Tahoe News and keep ths thing going!
Happy Holidays!!!, Old Long Skiis,OLS,Bob Rockwell
As a contributor of articles to your news Kae, I can certainly agree. I have received many hateful, demeaning comments for expressing my point of view, concerns, etc. It is unfortunate that many people feel the need to put people down for expressing themselves if that point of view is different from their own. I have always been told that it is a need that these people have to try to make themselves feel better about themselves. Too bad they can’t find something positive to do with their lives and make a difference.
Maybe using a system like Reddit.com could help where people can give a persons nasty comments a down arrow and the comment moves down and visa versa a good comment would receive an up arrow which would move that comment up.
I also think that using monikers is a way to mask their true identity, allowing them to hide without any regard to human decency.
Using real names would most certainly stop that.
It would also be nice to have you report unbiased news
How many times is this subject going to come up before something is actually done. The “endorsement” people who did the endorsing for this site were the worst. I have no problem with not getting an endorsement if there are valid reasons of which there were many in my case involving issues. The main focus of the non endorsement was that I was a blowhard, tacky. An endorsement should be be based on facts not personal attacks. I actually took most of it as a compliment considering the anonymous sources. The one thing about hiding behind a screen name is that if you are in public you can go with the flow if you were wrong about something. Another is that you are not quite confident in what you are saying or it gives you an out if no one else agrees. What you are saying is privately I am an idiot but publicly I am a genius. A healthy debate sitting around a coffee table is an art we have forgotten in this digital age and anonymity is a cowards way out. The one thing I enjoyed about my time in the military was the fact that instead of stabbing you in the back they looked you in the eye, this gave the opportunity to turn the other cheek.
Another note: We are having our 32 annual Thanksgiving “no family in town” dinner and all are welcome after 2:30 for dinner. 2189 Blitzen Road
I agree with Steve Kubby and the others. Real names please.
Bravo!
I agree people should keep it respectful, but it just won’t happen. One must (unfortunately) moderate to keep it clean. FACEBOOK? You all realize many people use fake names right? It’s just the way of the world now…just teach your kids not to be a-holes.
Well, since my last post is awaiting moderation… I guess I was too mean. Kea, thanks for your food for thought. I believe we do not need to put faces with people’s comments. Sometimes it’s best to not know. Everyone has something to bring to the table and it doesn’t mean we need to partake… I’m thankful for all you posters and LTN. Happy Thanksgiving!
Many Blessing to you Kae for providing us local and regional news. How one responds to what is reported “SHOULD” be respectful. Not everyone can agree all the time- that’s why we live in America with rights to opine.
Tough call. This is a country that according to freepress.org around 2013, that didn’t even rank in the top 25% most free press countries on the planet. Being a person who has built websites, posted numerous photos and videos to the internet, I can attest to the censorship. Not to mention all the destroyed cameras and computers.
Getting back to personal attacks, maybe some kind of character assassination flag might work.
To Kae and Krew and all readers of Lake Tahoe News. Here on Knox street, all is right around here! There’s a fire in the woodstove (altho not needed, it still adds to the “feeling” of Thanksgiving Day!).
I’m thankful for living in such a beautiful place and getting to know so many great people!!!
The house is beginning to smell of slowly roasted turkey and the sounds of mashed potatoes being whipped up and the scent of dressing cooking in the kitchen. Oh yes, a great holiday indeed!
I loves me some turkey. Old long Skiis, OLS, Bob Rockwell…Take care.
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=8
Kae, on this day of saying what we are thankful for, you are on my list. I look to you for news, events and a viewpoint that I can appreciate. I do not let you think for me, but with me and I enjoy all that you add to my life.
Thank you for everything. Gratefully,
Me
A thought for your readers:
The Pilgrims made seven times more graves than huts. No Americans have been more impoverished than these who, nevertheless, set aside a day of thanksgiving. ~H.U. Westermayer
Kae,
Let’s share a glass of wine! We live in one of the most beautiful places in the world.
We should all be able to agree to disagree. Life is short.
Amen, Joy!
Couldn’t agree more!
Kae, I’ve been catching up after being out of town……and there’s been contrariness in our midst for much too long. Your timely suggestion that we stick to the subject is what you wanted all along. Your readers don’t need to argue like children, nit-pick and criticize each other. “Take it outside” if you’re going to fight about it, OK? Keep up the good work, Kae, for we are all thankful you are providing us with NEWS!
Late reply here. Was taken aback a bit by the title. An attention grabber for sure, but I’d prefer that it’d said more like, “Thankful for all commenters here, but wish they’d clean up their act a bit.”, or something to that effect.
Unless one has just discovered the internet in recent months, no one should be shocked at message boards containing some rude comments now and then, if not most of the time. Not giving anyone, including myself, a pass, but it’s pretty much human nature to spout off in a medium as stark as the internet is. A wise personnel manager of mine once commented that face to face communication is pure, that phone conversations lose over half the effectiveness, and that email is woefully ineffective by comparison, even to those you know well. Add to that recipients being strangers, and adoption of hidden identities, and it’s a wonder that such communication has any value at all.
So really, I think we could be doing much worse, especially if you follow any other message boards out there. We have our childish snipping, which deserves work. But one thing I notice is that more and more of the names here become familiar as time passes. I think when a hot topic pops up, you can count on a couple dozen to show up, with most often somewhat predictable responses. It may shock the senses, but I think we’re actually getting to know one another! Continue that and I think things can and will improve.
The idea of non-anonymity is good, but some may drop if that’s the case. I use (most of) my real name only as a means of self-discipline. I’m aware of the risks of speaking off the cuff without restraint, and try to speak as though I’m at a bar striking up a chat with a stranger and hashing out topics without breaking into a bar room brawl. But it wouldn’t be a testy conversation, were the topic not that interesting. In the back of my mind, I also see a little risk that I may meet some of you face to face some unexpected time, and have to account on the spot for what I said, and how I said it.
While on the topic of format changes, one feature I really wish were here was the option of receiving an email if there were further comments made after yours. When I finish here and log off, this page disappears and I never know if I got any feedback or not. With this late post, I wonder if anyone will ever see it. In communication there is nothing more important than feedback. In face to face conversation, non-verbal feedback is paramount and can cause you to immediately change your tone if its not having the desired effect. We’re stuck with stark internet text here, but better feedback would make the difference in knowing whether you stepped out of line, wrote something that was worth the while, or are just blowing smoke into the ether-wind.
I’m thankful to everyone here, including Kae and LTN, and thankful that they are concerned about all the issues they comment on. I hope we grow as a community and continue to do our small part in finding solutions to the issues that divide us so.
I agree wholeheartedly with Steve Kubby — the solution to rude, hostile, name-calling commenters is to end anonymous posts.
My partner says everyone who comments on LTN needs to spend an hour in the woods every day— and leave the negatives there! It’s a start.